Steam Engine and Railroad as institutions

[pheonicia]

So I feel there has been a lot of discussion about institutions and I wanted to share some ideas that I had. Late in the game there are no new institutions to be had, making bonuses to institution spread and adoption pointless after the enlightenment. Therefore I thought of adding the steam engine as an institution in 1750 and the railroad as one in 1800. I realize that railroads wouldn't be adopted by many nations by game end, but I feel there is still value in adding it, to better differentiate nations at the end of the game. I have no idea what would be the triggers/effects/modifiers for these institutions and wanted to see opinions on them from the community. If I get a good idea of what they would look like in game I'll make a separate thread in the suggestions forum.

 

[alphamikefox]

Late game institutions is a neat idea, but then you'll probably just get people grumpy about not being able to get all the institutions by end game, especially ppl playing eastern european countries. I mean, just look at them squawking about institutions now!

As for steam engines and railroads...this ain't the Vicky 3 wish list forums...

 

[wingzero890]

So I feel there has been a lot of discussion about institutions and I wanted to share some ideas that I had. Late in the game there are no new institutions to be had, making bonuses to institution spread and adoption pointless after the enlightenment. Therefore I thought of adding the steam engine as an institution in 1750 and the railroad as one in 1800. I realize that railroads wouldn't be adopted by many nations by game end, but I feel there is still value in adding it, to better differentiate nations at the end of the game. I have no idea what would be the triggers/effects/modifiers for these institutions and wanted to see opinions on them from the community. If I get a good idea of what they would look like in game I'll make a separate thread in the suggestions forum.

The missing institution you're thinking of is simply 'Industrial Revolution'.

Start it in 1750 and make it extremely difficult to get by game end. Countries that industrialize should get massive bonuses to everything related to ducats, like a huge -maintenance modifier for all units or something (standardization of parts)

 

[Shadoon4]

While the idea of a 1750 institution is well received (1800 is a bit late too really have an effect) the idea that steam engines would even be relavent almost 50 years before the birth of Carnot is hilariously absurd, certainly they existed in an experimental capacity but they would've had little relevance prior to ~1820 when the first major attempts at railroads even begin to appear

 

[SignedName]

I think the 1750 institution could be the Postal Service. It was during this time that postal services began to become increasingly sophisticated and allowed for mass political participation, especially in the United States. The American Dream DLC even has an event related to it, and that could give them a boost to the institution. I think the institution for 1800 should be the Power Loom.

 

[pheonicia]

I would disagree that this has no place in eu4, as the Industrial revolution is generally considered to have started in 1760's GB and gained momentum by 1800. While there is certainly overlap with Victoria, the same is said about the first parts of the game with Crusader Kings, and that certainly didn't stop paradox from adding ruler personalities.

The missing institution you're thinking of is simply 'Industrial Revolution'.

Start it in 1750 and make it extremely difficult to get by game end. Countries that industrialize should get massive bonuses to everything related to ducats, like a huge -maintenance modifier for all units or something (standardization of parts)

I feel as though this is simply a disagreement over the wording of the institution, as one can't really have an industrial revolution without steam power in some capacity. Still maybe it would be better to focus on the introduction of coal as a high density energy source.

Something like "coal exploitation" perhaps?

 

[Shadoon4]

I would disagree that this has no place in eu4, as the Industrial revolution is generally considered to have started in 1760's GB and gained momentum by 1800. While there is certainly overlap with Victoria, the same is said about the first parts of the game with Crusader Kings, and that certainly didn't stop paradox from adding ruler personalities.



I feel as though this is simply a disagreement over the wording of the institution, as one can't really have an industrial revolution without steam power in some capacity. Still maybe it would be better to focus on the introduction of coal as a high density energy source.

Something like "coal exploitation" perhaps?

The first steam engines didn't even appear experimentally until 1780's, you're confusing technology, reasonably speaking the industrial revolution wasn't "started" until ~1790 by virtue of coal and steam power, 1760s start date refers is the advent of water mill factories (due to efficiency increases) and other improvements in ironworking (that for obvious reasons require coal). A proper 1750's institution would definitely be called the Industrial Revolution as this is what was happening around the end game but its important to note the differences in technology you're referring too

 

[londoner247]

The first steam engines didn't even appear experimentally until 1780's, you're confusing technology, reasonably speaking the industrial revolution wasn't "started" until ~1790 by virtue of coal and steam power, 1760s start date refers is the advent of water mill factories (due to efficiency increases) and other improvements in ironworking (that for obvious reasons require coal). A proper 1750's institution would definitely be called the Industrial Revolution as this is what was happening around the end game but its important to note the differences in technology you're referring too

What was the Newcomen Engine then? Surely that was the start of the steam revolution?

 

[Leovinas]

I like the Industrial Revolution institution idea. I suppose the alternative one would be something analogous to the 'rights of man'/droits de l'homme which spurred the French and American revolutions, though in a sense those are already represented with the whole strange 'revolutionary republic/empire' government types. I agree there should be something in 1750 though...

 

[MathewPerth]

I like the Industrial Revolution institution idea. I suppose the alternative one would be something analogous to the 'rights of man'/droits de l'homme which spurred the French and American revolutions, though in a sense those are already represented with the whole strange 'revolutionary republic/empire' government types. I agree there should be something in 1750 though...

What youre referring to is the enlightenment.

 

[pheonicia]

The first steam engines didn't even appear experimentally until 1780's, you're confusing technology, reasonably speaking the industrial revolution wasn't "started" until ~1790 by virtue of coal and steam power, 1760s start date refers is the advent of water mill factories (due to efficiency increases) and other improvements in ironworking (that for obvious reasons require coal). A proper 1750's institution would definitely be called the Industrial Revolution as this is what was happening around the end game but its important to note the differences in technology you're referring too

A quick google search shows that the Watt steam engine was developed between 1762 and 1775, going into production in 1776. I don't think it would be a massive breach of historicity to have the institution spawn in 1750, especially since the Newcomen Engine was in widespread use by that time in England as @londener247 mentioned.

Edit: Does no one have any opinions on the railroad as an institution? I certainly wouldn't mind not being able to get every single one by game end.

 

[puddingkip]

A 1750 institution would be really cool, a 1800 one is a bit of a stretch and would make fanatic collectivist annoying to get.

As for a name of the 1750 one, I think enlightenment is a good name. It started before 1750 but Renaissance started before 1450 as well etc. A lot of the most important works of the enlightenment were published around 1750. And maybe even give enlightenment a bonus to revolution? so that an enlightened nation is more likely to get the revolution because the rule of monarchs and their states become seriously questioned in the enlightenment

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

A 1750 institution would be really cool, a 1800 one is a bit of a stretch and would make fanatic collectivist annoying to get.

As for a name of the 1750 one, I think enlightenment is a good name. It started before 1750 but Renaissance started before 1450 as well etc. A lot of the most important works of the enlightenment were published around 1750. And maybe even give enlightenment a bonus to revolution? so that an enlightened nation is more likely to get the revolution because the rule of monarchs and their states become seriously questioned in the enlightenment

The Enlightenment is already an institution in the game.

I think an institution for Nationalism might make sense for the turn of the century.