Stealth

[mightygaz]

do speed and/or altitude affect stealth in any way? it seems very easy to detect even stealth aircraft.

also what are the levels of stealth? changing a loadout sometimes shows a reduction in stealth, but a reduction from what? and how do we compare aircraft against each other?

 

[Elouda]

There seem to be 5 levels of stealth, as follows. Most normal surface craft and 4th gen planes are in the Normal category. Most stealthy fighters are in the Stealthy (F35) or Very Stealthy (F22, Su50) classes. So in this case a -2 means that the F35 becomes Normal, and the F22/Su50 become Reduced.

Large
Normal
Reduced
Stealthy
Very Stealthy

I have no idea how height or speed affect stealth at the moment. I will run tests to determine what I can about the sensor model when I have the time. Alternatively if any of the devs want to drop any hints, that would help! :happy:

 

[mightygaz]

where do you find this info? is it in game and i'm a moron who missed it? wuld be nice to have a complete list.

 

[unmerged(400752)]

do speed and/or altitude affect stealth in any way? it seems very easy to detect even stealth aircraft.

also what are the levels of stealth? changing a loadout sometimes shows a reduction in stealth, but a reduction from what? and how do we compare aircraft against each other?

Changes in stealth rating when you change loadout is usually due to mounting or removing of external stores (drop tanks, missiles, etc). Also stealth only reduce a planes RCS (radar cross section) and the degree of reduction differs from different aspect. The best reduction is probably from the front but I don't know if that's modeled in game.

 

[Elouda]

where do you find this info? is it in game and i'm a moron who missed it? wuld be nice to have a complete list.

This is from the data files in Battleset/NWAC.

I notice that everything has dimension in game in addition to a stealth rating, so I would assume that the rating is applied to the objects dimensions. A huge plane even if its classed as Stealthy might be an easier radar target than a much smaller plane or drone thats only classed as Reduced.

As to if its directional or not? Another thing to test when I've got the time.

 

[mightygaz]

Changes in stealth rating is usually due to mounting or removing of external stores (drop tanks, missiles, etc). Also stealth only reduce a planes RCS (radar cross section) and the degree of reduction differs from different aspect. The best reduction is probably from the front but I don't know if that's modeled in game.

in real life, yeah, i know. but in game if there was a way to increase stealth, it would be handy to know.

as it is now, have you ever seen a plane vanish from radar, while still inside the detection area, after it has been detected? many stealth planes can be detected, though only intermittently, normally when they turn or whatever. so even when detected, they can go back to being not detected.

just looking for clarification on the way its handled in game.

 

[mightygaz]

another thing is i have seen missiles come out of nowhere. the firing aircraft was in the radar detection area, yet wasnt detected when it fired. opening the bay doors destroys the stealth of an aircraft, and at least while it fires it should be visible, even if it vanishes soon after

 

[Stealth17]

another thing is i have seen missiles come out of nowhere. the firing aircraft was in the radar detection area, yet wasnt detected when it fired. opening the bay doors destroys the stealth of an aircraft, and at least while it fires it should be visible, even if it vanishes soon after

I found the same thing in my games. Usually sending an aircraft closer to investigate revealed a craft, but I thought firing a missile would be like setting of a flare ("Here I am!") and in a sense it does, just not the way I expected it to.

 

[mightygaz]

I found the same thing in my games. Usually sending an aircraft closer to investigate revealed a craft, but I thought firing a missile would be like setting of a flare ("Here I am!") and in a sense it does, just not the way I expected it to.

a big huge flare. an F-22 opening its bay doors essentially loses all stealth, even radar systems old nowadays can detects them at that point.

 

[Stealth17]

Might have to do with what the devs said earlier: "if gameplay is at risk of being hurt by realism, gameplay goes first". They said it in a different way, but that was the main thought I believe. Maybe they meant it to be this way.

Anyway, at least you have a clue where the missile came from, even as you don't see the target .

 

[unmerged(255172)]

You've figured it out. The dimensions of the object from the viewing angle determines its radar cross section (rcs). The RCS is then modified by the RadarCrossSectionSize value of the unit, which varies from VeryStealthy to Large.

Some modifications are added here: disturbance from precipitation, objects near surface, land immediately behind target, etc.

The distance is taken into account, and the target's angular size towards the target is calculated (in ArcSec). Whether the radar detects the unit depends on the minimum angular size the radar is able to see.

 

[unmerged(475367)]

Jan, I think the database might require a little tweak here, the sukhoi pak fa and also the f-22 raptor are both very stealthy but this is incorrect, the pak fa is not in the same stealth class as the f-22 raptor(this is even recognized by the russians), it's not even sure it's on the same stealth level as the f-35 but it would be more accurate if you would just degrade the pak fa from very stealthy -> stealthy.

 

[unmerged(255172)]

We've been going back and forth on whether the T-50 is very stealthy or stealthy.

I have some angry Russian fanboys that will be after me if I reduce its stealth below that of the US plane, though.

 

[unmerged(475367)]

I understand but even those angry russian fans must understand that this game tries to be a simulation and not a SCI-FI game

On the wiki page for the paf-fa there is a quote that demonstrates that even the russian military acknowledges that fact that the pak-fa is not in the same stealth class as the Raptor, here is the quote: "The Moskovsky Komsomolets reported that the T-50 has been designed to be more maneuverable than the F-22 Raptor at the cost of making it less stealthy than the F-22."

This is turn is in accordance with the russian doctrine of putting more emphasis on maneuverability than on stealth.

Also if we take into account the vast experience americans have with stealth I think its not unrealistic to speculate that the russian will not catch up with american stealth technology in just one generation right ?

 

[unmerged(475367)]

Also I understand the need to balance the game but in reality US Airforce relies to a greater degree on stealth than on maneuverability and speed and also the US Navy relies on carrier based planes compared to the russian doctrine which emphasis maneuverability and fast anti-ship missiles(in part because they cannot match the american electronic and stealth technology).

This things tend to balance themselves and the fact that the US has an advantage is a fact and also has to be taken into account(us is investing much more in defense spending than russia or anyone else). Russians have always responded with greater numbers to the more advanced western technology and this is not a critic to them, it's just the way thing are right now .

I think it would be a shame to let things be influenced by fanboys right they always seem to have a problem with dealing reality thought

 

[unmerged(255172)]

We'll see what we do

 

[Gorduz]

Youve acutually taken into account viewing angle!! hmy: You guys are the greatest!!

 

[unmerged(475367)]

Since I am here I have 1 more suggestion.

Since this game happens in 2030 I think you must take into account the fact that the current SM2-ER(RIM-156) will be obsolete by than and replaced by the SM6

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-174_Standard_ERAM

It's not a big difference between them, the SM6 has greater range and has the active radar homing seeker from the AMRAAM for better kill chances against agile targets.

Also it was nice to see that you included the LRASM A and B that was a nice surprise even thought they are still in development now, I think it's ok to speculate that by 2030 there will be not many Harpoons left in the fleet but for the moment it's the only real ASM from the US navy.

 

[unmerged(255172)]

We'll probably add SM6 as an option. As it is, the darned range of the SM2s are bad enough for game balance.

 

[unmerged(400752)]

Hey. The SM2 range is sorely needed when faced with missiles traveling at Mach 4+ with very BIG warheads ;-P