I'll start a new topic with all of my ideas as soon as I return home. Hope PDX would work something playable out of them.
Staying small. Is there a point, or a way?
- Thread starter masterpaul666
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I'll start a new topic with all of my ideas as soon as I return home. Hope PDX would work something playable out of them.
Lets work with what we have got. I think the autonomy system of Peace/war and government bonus is a bit too simple and too rewarding for the war x years, fast foreward nobraining y years, rinse, repeat.
I figure a more complex system of autonomy could be advantageous: Where good relations with neighboring nations, low mercantilism and subsidies/gifts/loans/transfer trade power etc. gives you a bonus to autonomy reduction and autonomy is effectively increased by low stability, war exhaustion, unrest and aggressive expansion penalties. That would be a way to reward non-aggressive play and put a peaceful goal into play, outside of colonizing.
I would love to see a better economic relations mechanics, monarch interactions and more religiously and culturally conditioned relation effects like penalties for converting provinces from another nations religion/religious group and culture/cultural group. That would make for quite an interesting additional burden for larger empires before they get invincible!
I would also say that all of your provinces should be under a certain level of autonomy and you should have been at peace for a certain amount of years to implement the decision. Also being beaten by a revolt should cancel the decision but still cause the increase in autonomy and maybe a hit to stability to give it consequence.
That's just going to favor large nations who can afford to wage war on their borders while the interior is untouched by marauding armies.
.png){kind=avatar}
I think I would enjoy playing a game where another country has their capital become important which causes me to come in and smash it all down. Nobody can have nice things but me.
I think I would enjoy playing a game where another country has their capital become important which causes me to come in and smash it all down. Nobody can have nice things but me.
Especially when they have a few hired armies, they are allied to your rivaling superpower and have a massive defensiveness bonus, making them very hard to siege =))
Another idea I came up with, would be to add a relationship bonus if you're in a defencive war. Say france attacks friesland, friesland is friendly, but not allied with austria, france's rival. +25 relation because france attacked them, might be enough to tip the scale and bring austria in.
That, and making it impossible for AI to choose a mission that involves fighting someone they have a royal mariage and an alliance with. I'm sick and tired of stuff like : milan friendly with france, france gets italian ambition, milan dies, with no chance of survival. That's basicely stupid.
That, and making it impossible for AI to choose a mission that involves fighting someone they have a royal mariage and an alliance with. I'm sick and tired of stuff like : milan friendly with france, france gets italian ambition, milan dies, with no chance of survival. That's basicely stupid.
Cheaper Stab Increases for small sized countries.
High MTTH Event which requires high stab, and not declaring war. The event increases the basetax of a province, or provides other flat bonuses.
Similar events which involve an investment of MP (that would otherwise be spent on coring, or diplo annexing) for gains.
Idea groups that provide more flat bonuses (ideally defensive and quality would do things like this).
Stronger but more expensive buildings.
A mission/decision that increases the basetax of a province but has a MP cost. Has to be on a worse ratio than simply coring a basetax province. Might also require Stab 3. Must require all owned provinces be of an accepted culture and religion.
High MTTH Event which requires high stab, and not declaring war. The event increases the basetax of a province, or provides other flat bonuses.
Similar events which involve an investment of MP (that would otherwise be spent on coring, or diplo annexing) for gains.
Idea groups that provide more flat bonuses (ideally defensive and quality would do things like this).
Stronger but more expensive buildings.
A mission/decision that increases the basetax of a province but has a MP cost. Has to be on a worse ratio than simply coring a basetax province. Might also require Stab 3. Must require all owned provinces be of an accepted culture and religion.
Most of that works, but the problem comes from free base tax. The way I see it, whats stopping france from keeping 2-3 vassals with 5 province ish, and litteraly wait for them to be fat and juicy before annexing them. I'm thinking those bonuses need to be ''temporary'', where they wouldnt be brought over after the owner died.
Make it so vassal cant have the events.
Or make it so they are country modifiers. Or lost on annexation.
Well, so what you really want from what I read in the OP and from some of the responses, is to have a small nation that can vassalize a lot of other nations.
Simply add a government type with a diplo-relations buff (2/3/4, or some such) wherein the government type goes away or to something else if your country goes beyond a certain number of cores. That would do what you want without having to damage other countries for being large and the players who play this while providing a big buff to being small that goes away if you become large. Maybe a non-HRE arch duchy merchant imperial republic
Simply add a government type with a diplo-relations buff (2/3/4, or some such) wherein the government type goes away or to something else if your country goes beyond a certain number of cores. That would do what you want without having to damage other countries for being large and the players who play this while providing a big buff to being small that goes away if you become large. Maybe a non-HRE arch duchy merchant imperial republic
Well, so what you really want from what I read in the OP and from some of the responses, is to have a small nation that can vassalize a lot of other nations.
Simply add a government type with a diplo-relations buff (2/3/4, or some such) wherein the government type goes away or to something else if your country goes beyond a certain number of cores. That would do what you want without having to damage other countries for being large and the players who play this while providing a big buff to being small that goes away if you become large. Maybe a non-HRE arch duchy merchant imperial republic
Congressional Republic.
A noble is elected to reign for X years. 1 person from each vassal, random stats. +2 relations. +50% relations over time.
More vassals means better ruler choices.
Buildings would need to be far more powerful. Small nations with built up infrastructure have always out done large nations with no infrastructure.
See: Japan vs. Anyone they fight.
See: Germany vs. The World.
See: Britain.
There also tends to be localized populations, so those GIANT tracks of Siberian landscape add.... nothing. The game would make more sense if tax bases were more like 20-30 on large cities, and pretty much 1-2 everywhere else.
Some real suggestions though:
Neighbor bonus on technology should extend some provinces outward. This way a collection of small provinces would way out pace a couple mega empires butting against each other. The Chinese who sat there doing nothing would be most effected negatively, while the HRE would be the most effected positively, which makes me believe this idea would work great.
The effects of buildings should be increased 30-50%. This would mean instead of spending your mana on expansion spending it on inward buildup would mean more. 5 built up provinces should easily out pace 20 Mongol provinces without even a church on them (as happened, the Mongols needed MASSIVE tracks of lands to accomplish much.)
The great power negative should be bumped up and harder to achieve, but there should be a small penalty for a medium sized empire. Your Frances and your Ottomans should be great powers, but little Prussia sitting on 10 provinces should not be a great power, but rather just a regional power. It should be much easier for OPNs to find allies, but great powers should be struggling to get anyone of reasonable size to work with them. Alternatively we could reward OPNs and <10 province countries with an additional relationship to make up for their small stature.
See: Japan vs. Anyone they fight.
See: Germany vs. The World.
See: Britain.
There also tends to be localized populations, so those GIANT tracks of Siberian landscape add.... nothing. The game would make more sense if tax bases were more like 20-30 on large cities, and pretty much 1-2 everywhere else.
Some real suggestions though:
Neighbor bonus on technology should extend some provinces outward. This way a collection of small provinces would way out pace a couple mega empires butting against each other. The Chinese who sat there doing nothing would be most effected negatively, while the HRE would be the most effected positively, which makes me believe this idea would work great.
The effects of buildings should be increased 30-50%. This would mean instead of spending your mana on expansion spending it on inward buildup would mean more. 5 built up provinces should easily out pace 20 Mongol provinces without even a church on them (as happened, the Mongols needed MASSIVE tracks of lands to accomplish much.)
The great power negative should be bumped up and harder to achieve, but there should be a small penalty for a medium sized empire. Your Frances and your Ottomans should be great powers, but little Prussia sitting on 10 provinces should not be a great power, but rather just a regional power. It should be much easier for OPNs to find allies, but great powers should be struggling to get anyone of reasonable size to work with them. Alternatively we could reward OPNs and <10 province countries with an additional relationship to make up for their small stature.
Last edited:
I don't know if this counts as staying small in peoples opinion but doing Venetian sea I have stayed under 10 provinces the whole time. However, I have 4 large vassals/marches, Serbia - all the Balkans/Bulgaria, Byz- all greek culture provinces, Mentese - all Turkish culture provinces and Syria - all Syrian culture provinces and I have kept all centres of trade/estuaries for myself. Having built all available buildings I am second for income (mostly trade), however, militarily I would struggle if not for my vassals, my FL 50k their combined FL 80k. Now I just need to figure out how to get that 90% trade power without wiping out the HRE merchant spam.
+1 for increasing the range of base taxes. It would make it easier to differentiate crap provinces from amazing provinces and could be used to reduce the colonization problems.
I think buildings and later policies would fit an economically focussed country if the cost/benefits get looked at. Policies are a bit to the prohibitive side in terms of costs. Making some economic/other costs for some of them instead of pure power points seems reasonable. Increasing costs on culture and religious conversion without a such would be a bonus if that insane humanism idea-group is tuned down towards very powerful. In that way multicultural and multireligious empires will have to do some more peaceful empire building at times instead of war-peace cycling based purely on truce-timings if even that.
They only think they're hard to siege. My wall of cannons, +20% siege ability from Offensive ideas, and siege pip generals disagree.
So you want a Neighbor bonus nerf so that not all countries in a tech group have the bonus?
Yes apart from the vassal AI getting a bit screwy at times and not doing anything requiring a reload. It was suprisingly difficult though due to a combination of low personal manpower/FL and Ottomans allying Timmies who I couldnt reach making WS gains very slow.
Also I don't know if this is a bug or not but if I took six provinces 5 to vassals and 1 to me I got AE as if I had taken all 6 provinces myself. However, if I gave all 6 provinces to my vassals I got no AE.
I'm playing Ireland ATM (5 provinces, 9 land FL and 25 navy FL)... So boooring =(((