Staying small. Is there a point, or a way?

[masterpaul666]

In Eu3, you we're litteraly rewarded for staying small. Playing a tuscanny, was quite fun. 1 province, 400 years, hundreds of vassals, and massive trade network, cheap tech and such.

In eu4, everything is about eating as many neighbour as possible. It's kinda sad, really. Is there a legitimate point to staying small, or is there some mod that gives a few bonuses to smaller country?

 

[Arrowfiend]

The only time staying small is beneficial is when you want to westernize because size determines how long it will take. Otherwise, it's pretty much always better to be larger rather than smaller.

 

[balmung60]

Well, you need to be relatively small to become a noble/merchant republic.

If you want a mod, it shouldn't be too hard. Just write up some triggered modifiers with the conditions of "not = { num_of_cities = X }" where X is your cut-off for "small". Make a few others with other sizes and you can make stacking triggered modifiers that increasingly favor smaller nations while nations over N provinces get el zilcho, or even get weakened.

 

[masterpaul666]

Thinking about it a bit more. Would a way to penalise large country too much?
I'm thinking tech cost + 1% for every 5 province they own(capped at 15% ish)
Probably something along those lines, really.

 

[balmung60]

Simple, write 15 triggered modifiers with condition "num_of_cities = 5", "num_of_cities = 10", "num_of_cities = 15"... until you hit the 15th modifier and all having the effect "technology_cost = 0.01".

It should look like this:

# Triggered modifiers are here.
# these are checked for each countries once/month and then applied.
#
# Effects are fully scriptable here.


###########################################
# Big nation nerf 1
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_1 = {
	potential = {
		always = yes
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 5
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 2
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_2 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 5	#See it when the previous one kicks in
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 10
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 3
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_3 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 10
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 15
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 4
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_4 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 15
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 20
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 5
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_5 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 20
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 25
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 6
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_6 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 25
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 30
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 7
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_7 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 30
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 35
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 8
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_8 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 35
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 40
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 9
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_9 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 40
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 45
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 10
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_10 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 45
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 50
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 11
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_11 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 50
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 55
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 12
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_12 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 55
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 60
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

###########################################
# Big nation nerf 13
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_13 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 60
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 65
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}


###########################################
# Big nation nerf 14
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_14 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 65
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 70
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}


###########################################
# Big nation nerf 15
###########################################
big_nation_nerf_15 = {
	potential = {
		num_of_cities = 70
	}

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 75
	}

	technology_cost = 0.01
}

 

[Sassassin]

Thinking about it a bit more. Would a way to penalise large country too much?
I'm thinking tech cost + 1% for every 5 province they own(capped at 15% ish)
Probably something along those lines, really.

If you don't like playing a large nation, that's fine, but suggesting nerfs to large nations is not going to be fun for anyone. Unless of course you like other people being worse off, or lack self control when you play.

 

[masterpaul666]

Thanks balmung(any issues if I just use that?)

And, sassassin, I'm aware of the implications. I'm not really asking for a nerf per say, just some kind of power difference. A bonus to smaller nation, would work just as well.
In eu3, tech cost was directly related to size, being a small trade nation made you quite advanced in tech. Enough to keep at bay bigger enemies. In this version, there's nothing small nation can do beside allie other big nations. And with the damn missions to just get random land, allies rival me on a daily basis.

I'm just trying to find a point/a way to stay small. It was a lot more fun. Blobbing is boring, and too easy.

 

[anomalacaris]

I think after they fix vassal income, one can try becoming OPM Holy Roman Emperor with revoke privilegia.
I wonder how high your FL can become with colonial nations, influence ideas and all those vassal+forcelimit ideas.
For more challenge, do this with Iqta.

 

[IIWW]

Thanks balmung(any issues if I just use that?)

And, sassassin, I'm aware of the implications. I'm not really asking for a nerf per say, just some kind of power difference. A bonus to smaller nation, would work just as well.
In eu3, tech cost was directly related to size, being a small trade nation made you quite advanced in tech. Enough to keep at bay bigger enemies. In this version, there's nothing small nation can do beside allie other big nations. And with the damn missions to just get random land, allies rival me on a daily basis.

I'm just trying to find a point/a way to stay small. It was a lot more fun. Blobbing is boring, and too easy.

I don't quite get it: You want a challange, so You're asking to make it easier?

 

[Cymsdale]

I do think large nations should have something to represent the challenges of being large. There is literally no downside to having more provinces beyond the temporary transition issues when you take them over.

And this isn't about "nerfing a playstyle" or any nonsense like that, but simply representing that the challenges of running a nation change as more territory is put under its administration.

 

[butcherlyfly]

Almost every game mechanic there is is already biased towards small nations.

 

[masterpaul666]

I do think large nations should have something to represent the challenges of being large. There is literally no downside to having more provinces beyond the temporary transition issues when you take them over.

And this isn't about "nerfing a playstyle" or any nonsense like that, but simply representing that the challenges of running a nation change as more territory is put under its administration.

This is accurate. I'm not looking for just a nerf, I'm looking for a ''small'' nerf, nothing game changing, but enough to say you get an actual legitimate choice. Right now, expanding is a joke. It's litteraly just eat all your neigboor. Then wait 15 years for coalitions to die off, rinse and repeat. About 100 years in, you don't even wait on coalitions anymore, you can easily beat them. It's boring. It's a joke. I'd rather have the option to stay as a few provinces, alive throughout the whole campaign, with a small impact on the world.

Another mod option would be to increase the penalty of unaccepted culture, to make it more likely that people will expand slowly, as they need to change culture. Another one would be to keep same coring cost, but make it 2-3x times longer. Meaning they have to sit on what they took longer, before they can expand more.

 

[Cymsdale]

Almost every game mechanic there is is already biased towards small nations.

This is simply not true.

 

[G_Morgan]

In EU3 this was achieved via overextension. For a large nation the triggers for getting overextended were much easier to fulfil. Essentially the one modifier was a function of your centralisation and your size. At smaller sizes you could be more centralised without being in danger of overextension.

 

[IIWW]

Ok, I see Your points, but the game would be simply boring if expansion would be nerfed. This game is all about expanding.

 

[ChildeR]

This game is all about expanding.

Which is a bug, not a feature.

 

[masterpaul666]

Ok, I see Your points, but the game would be simply boring if expansion would be nerfed. This game is all about expanding.

it shoudln't be. Countries didn't just expand back then, why would we have a ''history simulator'' that only favors expanding.

 

[Xara]

Which is a bug, not a feature.

how the hell is expanding a BUG.

 

[butcherlyfly]

This is simply not true.

Compare 1PM and 2PM in RL and in game. In RL i would expect 2PM to have twice the manpower, FL, naval FL, traders, diplomats, generals. 2PM would get 50% less overexstensoin, would be able to core, convert and colonize twice more land. And so on.

In game though there is practically no difference between 2PM and 1PM.

 

[ChildeR]

Thinking about it a bit more. Would a way to penalise large country too much?
I'm thinking tech cost + 1% for every 5 province they own(capped at 15% ish)
Probably something along those lines, really.

I'd rather buff buildings. A large nation that expands cannot afford the monarch points to keep all their provinces fully upgraded, so make that matter. Double the effects of most buildings, maybe increse MP cost some, but keep gold cost the same or increase only slightly. Also, conquering provinces could destroy some buildings.