Statistics Page Realy Damage Multiplayer Game

[unmerged(43564)]

WHEN THE ENAMY CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE, AN ENORMUS ADVANTAGE IS DESTROYED. ITS ALMOST AS BAD AS NO FOG OF WAR.





"June 22. Operation BARBAROSSA begins. Over 3 million German soldiers and 3300 tanks cross the Russian border. The Wehrmarcht is organized into three Army Groups. Facing them is the world's largest army comprised of 238 divisions of 14,000 men each, with 20,000 tanks (many obsolete.)
The Russian Army is organized into four Military Districts.

Hitler admits to Guderian 5th november 41, "had I known Russian tank strength...I would not have started this war."




I love HOI2, but plz disable the National Army Compersiion page in multiplayer, it is to easy and unrealistic, when you just can turn a page on, and see what the enamy have... im sure Hitler woud wanted that page, by i dont, and i think realy few want it in multiplayer...




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[unmerged(45180)]

I agree. There should be at least a few months lag for the information to appear. It is also annoying when you are able to see if the enemy has built any sea or air transports; just by noticing that he has no paratroopers you can easily move ten divisions from the rear to the front.

 

[Willard]

Actually Hitler was given a pretty accurate disposition of the Soviet forces prior to the invasion. He dismissed them as being over-estimates and inflated.

 

[unmerged(43564)]

Well

Still, It is very bad that its possible to read exectly what the enamy have, at least make a delay or something.... It is bad for gameplay, if Germany and Italy starts building a force of 50 Transport Ships from 36, and many Carriers, its all a big vaste, if UK can just look on a list, and see the sealion comming, already in 36/37...


When its the east front..
German Panzer Comanders got a picture of all SU Tanks and armored vheicales, all was on the list but the T-34.

SU had 206 T-34 Operative in beginning of the war, and the tank was so strong, so the only wapon abel to stop it was Anti Aircraft Batteries, in 88mm caliber, after this incedent German Produsers made AT versions of the 88mm gun.

Here we can se L Arm, and Arm.... and its realy bad if we can see ecsactly division numbers, .... very unrealistic...

 

[vertinox]

I would agree, but there should be something to tie into Encryption/Decryption techs. Perhaps even in single player the stastics boards should estimates based on intelligence.

 

[The Albatross]

WHEN THE ENAMY CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE, AN ENORMUS ADVANTAGE IS DESTROYED. ITS ALMOST AS BAD AS NO FOG OF WAR.

"June 22. Operation BARBAROSSA begins. Over 3 million German soldiers and 3300 tanks cross the Russian border. The Wehrmarcht is organized into three Army Groups. Facing them is the world's largest army comprised of 238 divisions of 14,000 men each, with 20,000 tanks (many obsolete.)
The Russian Army is organized into four Military Districts.

Hitler admits to Guderian 5th november 41, "had I known Russian tank strength...I would not have started this war."


I love HOI2, but plz disable the National Army Compersiion page in multiplayer, it is to easy and unrealistic, when you just can turn a page on, and see what the enamy have... im sure Hitler woud wanted that page, by i dont, and i think realy few want it in multiplayer...

I have been raising the same issues in other forums like HSR (Stony Road)!!

Furthermore -- I don't think it feasible that the enemy (or neutrals) should be able to click on any provincial maps and see up-to-date Land/Sea forts, amount of INFRA, or details of factories etc...

What should happen is that all countries can have the exact data at the 1936 start of the game in their STATISTICS PAGE (and on the map if you wish) ....but....any subsequent changes afterwards are completely hidden.

More details may be subsequently gathered if (as Vertinox suggests) you develop encryption/decryption techs, and fly multiple long range air recon missions over the terrain - simulating photo reconaissance data gathering activities.

We are currently involved in MP games -- when we want to know if JAPAN for example is concentrating his effort into CV building -- we just simply go to the Statistics page, see exactly what he is up to, and start looking on the map. Totally unrealistic!!!

What does everyone else out there think???

 

[Mithel]

I think you'd be surprised at the level of intelligence operations that occurred and provided a lot of data.

In my opinion the statistics page should be tied directly to your intelligence levels. A country like Costa Rica wouldn't have a clue how many carriers Japan had. However Germany and UK had some excellent knowledge of exactly what the other nations had.

 

[The Albatross]

They surely did, but....

I think you'd be surprised at the level of intelligence operations that occurred and provided a lot of data.

In my opinion the statistics page should be tied directly to your intelligence levels. A country like Costa Rica wouldn't have a clue how many carriers Japan had. However Germany and UK had some excellent knowledge of exactly what the other nations had.

I agree, but, as a classic example of what intelligence in the UK did not have....was the Fw 190....until one German pilot got lost over the channel and landed an intact model right onto a UK airfield.....lots of reverse engineering done on that baby.

We could also list the T34 tank here... but I hope that I have made my point!

I still think that it is 'not quite right' for the enemy to have your total ORBAT, including AA, and fortress dispositions deep in your territory, in an up-to-date format on both the Province and the Statistics Page!!
If it was so easy, then the Intelligence Corps people would have been 'sipping Daiquiris and chatting up likely lasses' for the entire war!!!

Fog of war is an accepted fact of dealing with any enemy --- why was the level of insurgency in IRAQ not adequately factored into recent OPS there?? The allies in the 21C had all types of data access, including satellite, phone taps, humint etc.....

Cheers

 

[unmerged(31954)]

Yes, this is an issue that some people (like myself) have been ranting over since the early days of HOI 1, and it has been left this way to this point. One therefore probably can assume it will remain the same until the end. It's why in HOI 1 I staunchly defended the right to retain units in the build queue. Paradox eliminated that option with HOI 2. The 1.2 patch took a step in the OPPOSITE direction of what we want -- giving perfect IC information with one click of a mouse.

 

[ETF]

I brought this up months ago but it was shot down..........I will try again and see if anything can be done. I doubt it though guys at this late stage of the game

 

[unmerged(15723)]

I think you'd be surprised at the level of intelligence operations that occurred and provided a lot of data.

In my opinion the statistics page should be tied directly to your intelligence levels. A country like Costa Rica wouldn't have a clue how many carriers Japan had. However Germany and UK had some excellent knowledge of exactly what the other nations had.

Agreed.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

In my opinion the statistics page should be tied directly to your intelligence levels.

i would suggest even the single-player game would benefit from Intelligence guesstimating opposing Orders of Battle and Industrial Capacity, etc.

Applicable from Costa Rica to the British Empire and the Third Reich.

Of course, in multi-player the importance is even more pronounced.

 

[unmerged(44861)]

I just posted about spies...it would be more believeable if you are able to send out spies/scouts to ascertain the strength of you (future) opponent...no way should there be a list, in any version.

 

[The Albatross]

OK -- so how hard......

I just posted about spies...it would be more believeable if you are able to send out spies/scouts to ascertain the strength of you (future) opponent...no way should there be a list, in any version.

Bingo --- so are there any coders out there who can give us an idea of how difficult such a Fog-of-War plan would be???

Shit -- why did I spend so much of my time in school playing basketball.....when I could have learned computer coding and just become a code guru...@#$%@$#.

Anyone else feel a bit passionate about the unreality of the "mouse-click Int" function.

Before answering -- consider other threads in the forum like -- more accurate ranges of aircraft, better representation of Leader Traits, what type of Brigades should/should not be bnuildable. All this stuff is dross if the enemy has your exact ORBAT in his hands.....!!!

 

[unmerged(46221)]

Over the years, I lost my illusions about what will be corrected in a patch or not. Of course it would be cool to have unprecise intel or even wrong one , depending on the qualities of your spies and the one of your opponent... but somehow I doubt it will come.

On the other hand, if you simply remove the stats page, you have no intelligence at all and that would be even worse! Nobody attacks a country, having no idea what is waiting behind the border!? Besides, you know that your enemy knows, so it's half that bad. If you do not deploy your transports until the very last minute (costs a lot of transport capacity if you plan it badly), then it's a hell of a surprise for sealion...

 

[The Albatross]

Update on More Requests for Fog-of-War Issues

I brought this up months ago but it was shot down..........I will try again and see if anything can be done. I doubt it though guys at this late stage of the game

Well, I sent a PM to Johan a couple of weeks ago -- he is no doubt tied up in knots with the 1.3 version and other stuff -- nothing heard since.

Here are some other sites with threads also supporting ability to modify/influence Stats Page and Province data to more historically reflect the accuracy of intelligence data.

TRP project --

http://trp.powerguilds.com/viewtopic.php?t=289

HSR mod --

http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showthread.php?t=3822

HOI 2 Forum -- this page.


I note that Lothos mentions in the TRP site that any changes will need to be made by the Paradox coders -- modders cannot influence this.

Perhaps not in 1.3, but maybe 1.4 version??

Cheers

 

[Oleg Gordievsky]

Over the years, I lost my illusions about what will be corrected in a patch or not. Of course it would be cool to have unprecise intel or even wrong one , depending on the qualities of your spies and the one of your opponent... but somehow I doubt it will come.

On the other hand, if you simply remove the stats page, you have no intelligence at all and that would be even worse! Nobody attacks a country, having no idea what is waiting behind the border!? Besides, you know that your enemy knows, so it's half that bad. If you do not deploy your transports until the very last minute (costs a lot of transport capacity if you plan it badly), then it's a hell of a surprise for sealion...

Good balanced post. There are pros and cons, mostly cons. Bottom line this has to be fixed.

IT'S AN MP GAMEBREAKER!!!

Do you think anyone at paradox heard me?

How about a variable to the accuracy of the statistics - let's say + / - 20%?

 

[unmerged(44893)]

I agree completely with this very common sentiment shared by ALL! It needs to be changed....HOWEVER, I still want to have the option of accurate Stats in SP, for example, an added feature in the options menu that activates 100% stats for all nations like you have now. As for MP....no stats, it's a real pain in the ass when everyone knows the composition of everyone elses army/navy/airforce so thoroughly. There goes half the fun, surprise is still my favourite attribute of a good multiplayer game.

Also, is it true that the core HOI2 Dev team consists of 2 individuals?

 

[unmerged(43564)]

'



PARADOX

Please make a fogg of war function, so we can decide if we want to have the statistic page on or off ---- its realy bad when the enamy can see evrything.

 

[Hizarv]

I totally agree on this one, if not removed, stats should be off by ± x %, the x being reduced by the level of decryption technology that you have. I mean...when you don't have decryption technology you cant even know how many units are in the province next to yours but you can know the exact composition of the whole army... ??