State and Government

[Garuda]

France vip its 1879 and I just laid down colonial buildings all over Afirca and Oceana. (I've been saving up money and materials for the last decade to do so).

OK, I am currently researching State and Government and will get the four usual invention choices, so what do I pick:

Populism vs Establishment
I guess establishment as it galvanises my pops more. With an anticipated influx of ethnic minorities due to my mass colonising separate issues being more important due to populism is not going to be a good choice? Is it?!?

Clericalism vs Anti-clericalism
Well, here I'm stuck. I am more inclined to go with clericalism as France is traditionally a moralistic nation, but again with such religious diversity in my pops is it really the better choice? I don't actually understand what I gain here!

Bureaucracy vs Nepotism
Clueless!!! IIRC there isn't a tool tip and I have no idea what this does. I guess bureaucracy centralizes my govmnt in some way?? Perhaps...maybe??
Anybody know what these do?

Meteriocracy vs Aristocracy
Again I have no idea what the choices mean. I would assume that a forward thinking and enlightened nation of the 1870s/1880s would be moving towards metreriocracy, but I do not know what th consequences of these choices are. Again, anybody know??

All help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[unmerged(45852)]

France vip its 1879 and I just laid down colonial buildings all over Afirca and Oceana. (I've been saving up money and materials for the last decade to do so).

OK, I am currently researching State and Government and will get the four usual invention choices, so what do I pick:

Populism vs Establishment
I guess establishment as it galvanises my pops more. With an anticipated influx of ethnic minorities due to my mass colonising separate issues being more important due to populism is not going to be a good choice? Is it?!?

Clericalism vs Anti-clericalism
Well, here I'm stuck. I am more inclined to go with clericalism as France is traditionally a moralistic nation, but again with such religious diversity in my pops is it really the better choice? I don't actually understand what I gain here!

Bureaucracy vs Nepotism
Clueless!!! IIRC there isn't a tool tip and I have no idea what this does. I guess bureaucracy centralizes my govmnt in some way?? Perhaps...maybe??
Anybody know what these do?

Meteriocracy vs Aristocracy
Again I have no idea what the choices mean. I would assume that a forward thinking and enlightened nation of the 1870s/1880s would be moving towards metreriocracy, but I do not know what th consequences of these choices are. Again, anybody know??

All help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I'd think France is the model anti clerical nation in real life.

I'm not an expert on all of these, but I'd definately pick Nepotism and Aristocracy. Nepotism is just a better choice, as you don't get an event that raises your loan interest rate 10%. Aristocracy is a bit closer of a call, but if you have crime buildings I think it is the way to go as your capitalist income will be obliterated by semi-annual stock market crashes that don't happen with the aristocratic choice.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Populism vs Establishment I guess establishment as it galvanises my pops more. With an anticipated influx of ethnic minorities due to my mass colonising separate issues being more important due to populism is not going to be a good choice? Is it?!?

Depends what party you want in power.If you might switch a lot in party's or need liberal party's then populism might be a good idea because it's easier to steer ellection outcome's with ellection discussions ,and you can hold ellections regulary thus greatly influence the people's issue's.

With france you might be more aiming for a conservative party ,then establishment might be good provided you have mostly conservatives anyway ,good when you have voting right's landowners only for ex.

Clericalism vs Anti-clericalism Well, here I'm stuck. I am more inclined to go with clericalism as France is traditionally a moralistic nation, but again with such religious diversity in my pops is it really the better choice? I don't actually understand what I gain here!

Usually the conservative party's are more for moralism and liberal party's for atheism or secular.If you plan to keep a conservative party at power with moralism then choosing clericalism will set a percentage of pop issue's at moralism thus making the people more alligned to that party ,vice versa with anti-clericalism.

Bureaucracy vs Nepotism Clueless!!! IIRC there isn't a tool tip and I have no idea what this does. I guess bureaucracy centralizes my govmnt in some way?? Perhaps...maybe?? Anybody know what these do?

IIrc it has effects on build costs ,it spawns events that change the costs of building or expanding a factory.

Meteriocracy vs Aristocracy Again I have no idea what the choices mean. I would assume that a forward thinking and enlightened nation of the 1870s/1880s would be moving towards metreriocracy, but I do not know what th consequences of these choices are. Again, anybody know??

Meritocracy is better for large industry's with lots of capitalists ,it makes their effeciancy better ,Aristocracy does the same for Aristocrats.There are other value's that get changed to like diplomacy effeciancy with aristocracy.(i even think that ,just like in EUII ,going aristocracy means that Badboy value will decrease faster)

 

[Garuda]

Thanks for the replies guys. I can assure you your help is very much appreciated .

 

[Xanthippus]

Meteriocracy vs Aristocracy
Again I have no idea what the choices mean. I would assume that a forward thinking and enlightened nation of the 1870s/1880s would be moving towards metreriocracy, but I do not know what th consequences of these choices are. Again, anybody know??

Aristocracy:
Increases the income bonus to RGOs given by Aristocrats.
Decreases the income bonus to factories given by Capitalists.
Increases diplomatic efficiency by 20%.

Meritocracy:
Decreases the income bonus to RGOs given by Aristocrats.
Increases the income bonus to factories given by Capitalists.
Decreases diplomatic efficiency by 20%.

I almost always go for Meritocracy, unless I'm roleplaying, or if I have a largely unindustralised nation and/or need a lot of diplomats.

 

[unmerged(5205)]

Doesn't choosing Meritocracy also increase the chance of that horrible stock crash event happening?

 

[Ciçatrix]

Doesn't choosing Meritocracy also increase the chance of that horrible stock crash event happening?

It is a requirement. So if you choose aristocracy, you can't get it.

 

[unmerged(45852)]

It is a requirement. So if you choose aristocracy, you can't get it.

Which makes aristocracy the better choice most of the time, imho. The event will fire so often that picking meritocracy basically means you will stop getting much income from your capitalists.

However, I believe that two things are needed for the event to fire: meritocracy and a certain type of crime building (trusts I think?). So if you wait to research state and government until you have eliminated all your crime buildings and can afford to keep funding crime fighting at close to 100%, I would say meritocracy is usually the better choice.

I'd never pick beauracracy though, as the event associated with it raises your interest rate 10% each time it fires. That means carrying any kind of debt will be prohibiitively expensive.

 

[Garuda]

Yesterday I read Falconhurst’s excellent 0.4b VIP AAR of his Saxe-Weimar game: ‘The White Falcon’. I found what he had to say about meritocracy vs aristocracy very interesting. His comments began in relation to the importance he placed upon raising plurality. I hope he won’t mind me quoting him.

State & Government also brings up some important decision points (meritocracy vs aristocracy etc)……

……I will need to choose meritocracy (+50% plurality) rather than aristocracy (-50% plurality) in the state and government culture, but will have to watch out for corruption (in particular immoral business) to avoid stock market crashes……

.......I made a fateful decision to go with aristocracy in meritocracy vs. aristocracy. Although the decreased plurality will hurt somewhat, this decision will pay for itself many times over in the increased diplomatic initiatives, which will go from 3.2 for a prestigious meritocracy at war to 5.0 for a prestigious aristocracy at war. The extra diplomatic initiatives will likely allow me to to something that otherwise would not be possible: to acquire the Canadian holdings of the UK before Canada is released as a dominion. This will provide a platform for my later invasion of the United States. Unfortunately aristocracy will also lead to degradation of the capitalists and a decrease in the capitalist bonus, but their main value for me comes from their very high monthly income alone. As you will find out, in a few years our nation will be so swimming in money that we won't know what to do with it. From the 1870s onward I typically generate millions of pounds of excess cash that I can find no constructive use for. So a decrease in the capitalist bonus from aristocracy ultimately will not be a major blow to our economy. DIs are incredibly valuable, at 2 provinces for 4-5 provinces in trades to allied powers with +200 relations and low or no BB, each DI gives me a net gain of 2-3 provinces. The difference between meritocracy and aristocracy at 1.8 DI more a year for aristocracy when otherwise maxed out (at war with a minor, >2500 prestige, great power) will translate into approximately 4 provinces/year extra or 80 provinces over the next 20 years. Clearly 80 provinces over the next 20 years from extra trades under aristocracy are worth much more to me than a small capitalist productivity bonus under meritocracy, notwithstanding the other disadvantages of aristocracy. And I won't have to worry about stock market crashes at all.

 

[Henry V]

Aristocracy

I always go with Aristocracy (also my preference in EU II) for the diplomatic efficiency. By that stage of the game, I am not too worried about the +20% building cost.

 

[unmerged(46403)]

what amuses me with State & Government is that, generally speaking, the most advantageous choices in Vicky ( Aristocracy, Nepotism) would completely wreck a country in real life (especially nepotism). The events seem to need rebalancing, yet, if you consider it, making them realistic would really remove any point from them.

 

[King]

I think maybe making them more realistic rather than totally realistic might be your answer.