Starting positions

[Bored Peon]

Can something be done to keep capitals from being placed so close to each other? Almost every huge map I play there is a player within 6 hexes of my capital. In fact I usually can find a capital before I can find a temple or a portal.

Obviously the minimum distance should vary between the map sizes.



I think the same minimum distance method should apply to holy ground and portals. Too many times they get clustered together. When they cluster on buigger maps it makes it much harder to find either.

 

[UncleJJ]

Agreed.

I am annoyed that some of the AI mages tend to start too close to my capital in most games. This means the game tends to descend into warfare against the AI too soon and circumscribes development. I certainly don't mind an early challenge in some games and if it happens occassionally then that adds variety but this seems to be something that occurs by design on most map types. Once I explore the map more fully I find that I have 2 or 3 AI capitals near mine and maybe 2 others distant and then huge areas of open space with just monsters and neutrals.

Only on large islands maps can I be relatively sure there will not be at least one great mage starting say 8 hexes away even if I reduce the number of starting AIs. Can we please have an algorithm that is completely random in AI placement rather than the present one which seems to favour placing them near the human (or the human near them :laugh: ) Other games like Civ 4 don't have this problem so maybe look at how they distribute starting locations.

If I am wrong in this, and it is just bad luck in the 15 or so games I have played that this occured, and other players have a different experience I would be glad to hear from them. If the developers could make a statement about how starting positions are decided that would be very helpful

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Im in two minds on the one hand I think getting in touch with rivals early on makes for a more fun game.

1. Cause you have to think about buildings your army up rather than just expanding. It makes you really think about which factions you make treaties with and which you go after to expand your domain. Which is a good thing, apart from one tiny issue Ive experienced and thats factions leaving treaties. Im not 100% sure if they are leaving because of relations with me are going down or those with other factions (Im at war with) are going up. Im hoping that at some point this weekend I will see a logical pattern emerge.

2. But then expanding quickly allows you to play a larger more diverse army. Which personally its what I love about the game.

 

[Mardagg]

Ive finished 2 games on huge maps with the latest patch.Played vs only 3 AI`s both time.The enemy capitals have been really far away in both games,really far.
Had a blast just expanding first and not meeting AI for a long time.
Iwas under the impression that with the newest patch the capital placement routine has been improved.
I did som test runs on medium maps vs 1 or 2 AI as well and got a good distance there as well between capitals.

 

[unmerged(527588)]

I think they should move more towards the Civ 5 route and let the player have a bit of choice as to where to settle in the early game. All too often I get a really bad capital placement and cannot expand at all. Like the one time I was sandwiched between another player and a population 5 neutral which meant I was stuck with 2-3 cities for the entire game.

 

[Bored Peon]

Well in my current game two of the AI capitals are literally side by side. I think there might be six hexes between the capital city hexes at most.

 

[Rhaegor]

In my huge games with max players I seem to always have at least two AI very close to me and I always seem to be at the southern edge of the map.

 

[Bored Peon]

My current game I chose seven planes. Two portal were side by side, a third one was three hexes away. The only reason I chose seven was because most games the portals ar enowhere near me. Having three clumped like that defeats the purpose of chosing sevne to increase the chance of one near me.

 

[MAGE-]

Yesterday multiplayer session:
Two of three games went with capitals being 8 and 17 hexes from each other. latest patch ofcourse.
Moderate map two players.
If fact, problem of maps being way too random do exist and something must be done about it.

 

[osserpete]

Yep. It seems almost every time you have a huge map and 4 or more AI everything is "grouped". Often you will end up with 3 or 4 other world portals within an 8 hex area. Same goes for holy grounds, etc.

 

[pipboy2000]

Hi everybody!

I find this very annoying, too!

I have been playing several games with the following settings:

world type: great land
worldsize: normal
maptype: cylindrical
additional worlds: 2
rival great mages: 4

Every single time my starting position was at the far north of the map (near the magic "border"), with two enemies just some hexes away to the south of my position and the the third and fourth enemy even more in the south but very near to the other two.

This almost always leads to war very early in the game. Not necessarily between me and the AI players, but they will fight non stop among each other.

When i decide not to got to war with them immediately (or to just defend, if they declare war on me) but to expand my empire with settlers, it seems to me, that the AI players build/conquer some cities but stop after some time for no reason. Therefore even later on in the game two thirds/three quarters of the map are not occupied by anyone and i can/could build a huge empire, just because the AI did not expand.

I'm not a hardcore gamer who wants to destroy an enemy as fast as possible. I enjoy a CIV-like gameplay, expanding my empire until i meet my rivals, then deciding what to do... (i don't know how i can explain this in a better way, but i think you get my point)

Since the starting positions of all players are so near to each other ( I often play 2 - 4 rounds and have already met two of my four rivals) this kind of gameplay is not possible.
The AI players start their eternal wars (which they usually can not win against each other, because the defence of their capitals is to strong for their armies) and do not expand in any way.

The last time i played, two of the four AI players had no second city at all (!), while one had his capital and two other cities and the fourth had built/conquered four or five cities. The vast rest of the map was empty. No one seemed to be interested (besides me, of course).
There is no point in playing such a map, if all the starting positions are crammed in one rather small area. Why aren't they scattered all over the map?!

Is there anything i can do to change this, this really broke the game for me...
(I know i could try a map with the island setting, but i don't want much water. I just want to play a "cylindrical" "great land" map with scattered starting positions...)

pipboy2000

 

[Bored Peon]

Well half the problem with AIs being so close is that they are constantly demanding tribute (refusal means war), so then you go to war, a few turns later it asks for peace. Then we go back to asking for tribute again. Wash, rinse, repeat until someone dies. Complicate it more by any army build up around your capital is considered a build up on their border.

 

[unmerged(504056)]

I found that if I play on Super Continents, 2 or even 3 AI player has their start position very close to me. On the other hand if I play on Continents I usually have a Continent on my own although sometimes the Continent could be very small but sometimes give me a good chance to expand without meeting AI players.

 

[Darkwing88]

Well half the problem with AIs being so close is that they are constantly demanding tribute (refusal means war), so then you go to war, a few turns later it asks for peace. Then we go back to asking for tribute again. Wash, rinse, repeat until someone dies. Complicate it more by any army build up around your capital is considered a build up on their border.

Its even better when they PAY you to make peace and 10-15 turns they declare war once again.
I tried to ignore them and never agree to any sort of peace after was is declared but in the end it made AI even weaker as they didnt focus so much on expansion but just pumping units out and send them after me wchich was pointless as I was heavily defended.

 

[waschbaer42]

I got pretty annoyed because of this, too.

But since we see that they are still putting work into the game, I'm kinda confident that they will adress this issue soon or later as well.

About the tribute thingy: Just make sure you don't have anything they want, bored peon. Spend money and mana asap if possible (building queue) f. e.

 

[unmerged(527231)]

NOW the starting position is really matter. If you starting as human in a desert - you are in trouble.

 

[waschbaer42]

Nah, do you really think?

I mean, I don't use my capital that much for ressource production (gold, food, mana) as I don't specialize it but use it for troop production.

Starting in a swamp or - which ever god you worship forbid - lava area, you have basically lost already imho.