Has anyone seen/found an overview of which skills the starting pilots (Behemoth, Glitch, etc.) start the campaign with ?
I.e their levels of Gunnery, Piloting, Guts and Tactics.
I.e their levels of Gunnery, Piloting, Guts and Tactics.
Starting Mechwarrior skills
- Thread starter Gelanin
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Thanks alot!
So it would kind of make sense to make them into the following:
Behemoth: Piloting + Guts
Dekker: Piloting + Tactics
Glitch: Gunner+Tactics,
Medusa: Piloting + Guts / backup....
Yourself: Gunnery + Guts or maybe Gunnery + Tactics, since your own character seems to be immortal...
That is if you want to try and have a balanced squad ?
Personally, I would likely go gunnery/guts on Glitch and gunnery/pilot on myself. However that is just a personal, how I want to play my character, preference.
The biggest tactical consideration for the main character is that they are immortal.
On the one hand, this might make them the best suited for the most dangerous role: melee. By that logic, a Juggernaut/bulwark/evasion build seems best. But on the other hand, pushing guts to 8 quickly on the immortal pilot seems foolish, so maybe someone else should be the the juggernaut pilot.
Clearly a role like long range sniper would take minimal damage so immortality would be wasted there.
That really leaves the scouting role or the short range gunboat role. Anybody can be a gunboat, whereas scouts tend to be smaller and more vulnerable, especially with the reduced evasion cap since the beta. So, as unglamorous a role as the scout may seem, it seems like the most logical fit.
So, as a scout, you definitely need sensor lock from the tactics skill to satisfy the spotter role, and evasion from the piloting skill to keep your scout in one piece as long as possible. The 8-tactics skill, Master Tactician’s initiative perk would combine with reserving to be a powerful way to move in and out without getting shot at too much. However i think the new 8-piloting ace pilot skill may be more practical in the late game when your scout may need to contribute more damage. I.e you’d still do the reserve tactic to only move forward into danger at the last possible second after enemies have moved, but you’d be able to fire both that turn and again on the next turn when you run back behind cover.
On the one hand, this might make them the best suited for the most dangerous role: melee. By that logic, a Juggernaut/bulwark/evasion build seems best. But on the other hand, pushing guts to 8 quickly on the immortal pilot seems foolish, so maybe someone else should be the the juggernaut pilot.
Clearly a role like long range sniper would take minimal damage so immortality would be wasted there.
That really leaves the scouting role or the short range gunboat role. Anybody can be a gunboat, whereas scouts tend to be smaller and more vulnerable, especially with the reduced evasion cap since the beta. So, as unglamorous a role as the scout may seem, it seems like the most logical fit.
So, as a scout, you definitely need sensor lock from the tactics skill to satisfy the spotter role, and evasion from the piloting skill to keep your scout in one piece as long as possible. The 8-tactics skill, Master Tactician’s initiative perk would combine with reserving to be a powerful way to move in and out without getting shot at too much. However i think the new 8-piloting ace pilot skill may be more practical in the late game when your scout may need to contribute more damage. I.e you’d still do the reserve tactic to only move forward into danger at the last possible second after enemies have moved, but you’d be able to fire both that turn and again on the next turn when you run back behind cover.
I think my big stumbling block is I really like the passive bonuses for Tactics and Guts, but not the named abilities (except Master Tactician).
There is a lot of weird anti-synergy built into the system. A melee pilot wants high piloting (for the bonus to melee) and high guts (for jugger). But evasive and bulwark are opposite approaches to reducing damage.
Similarly, Tactics is anti-synergistic with itself, which is annoying. Reducing minimum ranges and indirect fire bonuses don't quite gel, and neither does being the sensor tech- you want someone else doing that so you can indirect fire on the target's head. That suggests holding off on tactics until you unlock the skills from two other trees, but that locks off master tactician altogether.
It's an odd system, I like parts of it, but others pieces are puzzling
There is a lot of weird anti-synergy built into the system. A melee pilot wants high piloting (for the bonus to melee) and high guts (for jugger). But evasive and bulwark are opposite approaches to reducing damage.
Similarly, Tactics is anti-synergistic with itself, which is annoying. Reducing minimum ranges and indirect fire bonuses don't quite gel, and neither does being the sensor tech- you want someone else doing that so you can indirect fire on the target's head. That suggests holding off on tactics until you unlock the skills from two other trees, but that locks off master tactician altogether.
It's an odd system, I like parts of it, but others pieces are puzzling
One thing to keep in mind is that you may change the roles these guys play over the course of the campaign. If bulwark gets the job done in the early game, it’s fine that you take over with other skills later. Perhaps the tactician will handle missiles until you swap them for the one you were building up in gunnery. I’m an X-COM EU/EW/LW player, and it just natural to imagine role changes when you hit power spikes in those games from new abilities. Having both bulwark and evasion may not be ideal, but you do get the flexibility of a defensive boost in both cases. I’m more excited about ace pilot for melee mechs to be honest, but I suppose bulwark/jug could be useful on heavier mechs.
Also, the skill cost increases encourage you to spread out your points to some degree.
I agree. I think the pilot roles will change quite a bit as we go.
A pilot could start as a sensor lock scout. Later, get moved into a LRM boat. Finally, gets master tactician and drives your assault direct fire called shot mech.
I´m thinking.
Sniper: Advanced gunnery and bulvark from guts with good tactics skill but no abilities from that. put him in a medium/heavy mech with PPC(gauss rifle if we can get it) and LRM 15 or 20 and jump jets for mobility. Bulvark gives protection from counter sniping and he can use breaching shot and multitarget as need be.
Scout: Piloting/Tactics in a light or fast medium with decent melee/med range weapons. He will spend early rounds of encounters hiding and sensor locking and then flanking when time is right.
Two frontliners: Generalists with any abilities aside from sensolock in as heavy mechs as possible fitting the current mission. Can´t be too picky.
Sniper: Advanced gunnery and bulvark from guts with good tactics skill but no abilities from that. put him in a medium/heavy mech with PPC(gauss rifle if we can get it) and LRM 15 or 20 and jump jets for mobility. Bulvark gives protection from counter sniping and he can use breaching shot and multitarget as need be.
Scout: Piloting/Tactics in a light or fast medium with decent melee/med range weapons. He will spend early rounds of encounters hiding and sensor locking and then flanking when time is right.
Two frontliners: Generalists with any abilities aside from sensolock in as heavy mechs as possible fitting the current mission. Can´t be too picky.
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I thought about that myself but then i ended up thinking it will work fine as it is.
- For a melee pilot you have to come in range of the enemy to melee him, so damage reduction is more importand hor him than everyone else who can keep some distance (maybe avoid focus fire and is able to retreat into cover if nesessary) to the enemy. You can utilise the first pilot skill to take less damage while engaging, the first guts skill when you have closed in because the secound guts skill is very likely to let you punch him a secound time before its his turn again.
- That also fits in my "unit roster" as i dont see the long range fire support as a main damage dealer and more as a fire support unit to weaken up the enemy mechs. I aim for a full tactics/gunnery combo. This mech should fire first to reduce the enemy evasion to alow the heavyer owns to deal more dammage (thats where multishot comes in ahny too). If its not enought to take one evasion from the main target i am happy to dont shoot (the damage output on this high evasiv mechs is not that great overall) and use sensor look instead. To be able to get plus one initiative is also handy ase it lets you decide when to go. Reserving to the end could allow you to sensor look and then shoot at the same takget because you get a double move befor him. The redused min range helps to still utilyse your LRMs if you got to close to an enemy and the indirect fire penalty reduction also helps your LRMs.
My personel Pilot skilling plans for the various roles:
- Scout/Skirmisher: (myself) A lighter mech garanteed to come first with jumpjets and mainly support weapons and or flaimers. I will give him sensor look, evasive and master pilot. With the ability to double move (reserving after your target and then come twice befor him) and to move after you done something i am going to use this on on a lighter mech to break the enemy defense. I can double sensor look one target for -4 evasion or move in melee the guarded out of someone and then retreat again.
- Supporter: (Glitch) A medium mech with mainly LRMs. I will give her sensor look, master tacticion and multi target. Her role is simmilar to the skirmisher one but with much more firepower but no ability to break guarded. She can pic of multiple small targets and reduse the evasion of enemys with LRM fire or sensor look. Due to master tacticion also double moves are posible.
- Sniper: (Medusa) A medium/heavy mech with primary AC2/5s and LRMs. He will get bullwark, evasive and ace pilot. Able to maintain distance to its enemys and to be very hard to hit / damage straping of some of the mechs front armor and the most of its rear armor he will be able to deal significant damage with its weapon heavy build mech.
- Brawler: (Dekker) A heavy mech with primary an AC20 and lots of SRMs. He will get evasive, multi target and Breaching shot. Evasive will help him to reduce damage while engaging into range, the multi targe can led him utilise his SRMs better but the main point of gunnery is to be able to use breaching shot with his AC20.
- Juggernaut: (Behemoth) A heavy/assalt mech with a lot of support weapons and full armor. Skill with evasive, bullwark and juggernaut. She should have an easyer time to reach her targes and stay alive there because of evasive and bullwark. Juggernaut may even let her double bunch befor her target gets to react.
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@Exemplar Voss
I tihnk what you are seeing is the attempt at "balancing" the skill tree. It seems counter intuitive however they are trying to implement a system that does not just create a min/max combination set that you simply apply to each mechwarrior.
I tihnk what you are seeing is the attempt at "balancing" the skill tree. It seems counter intuitive however they are trying to implement a system that does not just create a min/max combination set that you simply apply to each mechwarrior.
But mostly it does do that. Just not for specific skill combinations, or maybe specific weapon sets need to penalized in some fashion. I'm not sure which direction the logic is coming from.
But largely you pick skills based on what broad types the pilot is going to be in. AC focused mechs? Definitely want guts. LRM focused, tactics is a must have. Brawlers want piloting, and presumably want to get to jugger.
I don't really see myself leaning on the immortal mechanic with Medbay time stretching into the 60 day range. I mean, yes, it's nice and all, but if you're actually putting it to use with any regularity, you're incurring a substantial opportunity cost by having an experienced pilot out for so long.
The close range roles will be delicate, but if I put anyone skilled into a light Mech I'm going to be ridiculously paranoid about using them. And even then, we have definitely seen the AI use target lock, so breaking line of sight and trying to play it safe isn't without risk, especially for something like a Jenner or a Firestarter.
I might just go with more of a Short range gunboat/scout hybrid in a medium with the rest of the lance being snipers...at least to start with - and then with no real preference for where the immortal CO is. I see relying heavily on sensor lock/focus fire/breaking LOS as my go-to strategy. Once I have Heavies or Assaults I could reassess.
Do light mechs stiil give a bonus to sensor range and a negative to signature? If so, your light mech could be scouting the periphery (hah, punintentional) and sensor lock opponents outside of return fire range. Unless the opponents are doing the same thing with their light mechs, of course.
True, but that will be vastly preferable to having an experienced pilot out forever! It certainly does make sense to have your one effectively immortal pilot in the seat of the mech most likely to get killed. Otherwise that mech (likely the scout) will effectively always be piloted by a low skilled pilot. Maybe that's not such a loss if all that pilot does is sensor lock, but finding replacement pilots when you need them that start with sensor lock could be difficult. Having a backup pilot for when the main is hospitalized is a valid strategy, but you'd still gain a lot from having one that doesn't lose their accumulated skill.
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I've spent quite some time thinking about viable skill synergy, think I'll go something like this:
Brawlers go Bulwark/Multitarget/Breaching shot or - if Ace Pilot works the way I suspect it to and you can also brace after firing - Multitarget/Evasive/Ace Pilot. While the tactical flexibility of Ace Pilot is nice in CQB, I think damage reduction is key here, so if Ace Pilot does not let you brace, it's out. My commander will definitely be one of the brawlers.
Another variant would be Evasive/Bulwark/Juggernaut: Get hit less often while moving, get less damage while not moving - and melee them back to the stoneage (initiative-wise) if you need to.I wonder, if you reserve down and act twice before the target does, can you actually melee it back 2 phases? Or 3, if it's a knockdown?
My scout/sniper (like to pair this) will be Sensor Lock/Evasive/Ace Pilot most likely.
For my fire support LRM boat (I never go out without one
) it's gonna be Bulwark/Multitarget/Breaching Shot. It will be a bit low on armor, so Bulwark would help alot if it actually gets shot at. Also, being an LRM boat, it will not have to move too often, keeping Bulwark up most of the time.
Master Tactician will have to wait for me to get (and use) assaults, you can always hire a pilot for that if necessary. As I am more into mediums and heavys, I don't see it happening for quite a while.
Brawlers go Bulwark/Multitarget/Breaching shot or - if Ace Pilot works the way I suspect it to and you can also brace after firing - Multitarget/Evasive/Ace Pilot. While the tactical flexibility of Ace Pilot is nice in CQB, I think damage reduction is key here, so if Ace Pilot does not let you brace, it's out. My commander will definitely be one of the brawlers.
Another variant would be Evasive/Bulwark/Juggernaut: Get hit less often while moving, get less damage while not moving - and melee them back to the stoneage (initiative-wise) if you need to.I wonder, if you reserve down and act twice before the target does, can you actually melee it back 2 phases? Or 3, if it's a knockdown?
My scout/sniper (like to pair this) will be Sensor Lock/Evasive/Ace Pilot most likely.
For my fire support LRM boat (I never go out without one
) it's gonna be Bulwark/Multitarget/Breaching Shot. It will be a bit low on armor, so Bulwark would help alot if it actually gets shot at. Also, being an LRM boat, it will not have to move too often, keeping Bulwark up most of the time. Master Tactician will have to wait for me to get (and use) assaults, you can always hire a pilot for that if necessary. As I am more into mediums and heavys, I don't see it happening for quite a while.
Hmm. I can see "graduating' scout pilots into Catapult (or other LRM heavy) pilots with master tactician.
Getting an enemy mech to unstable early will strip them of evasive and generally make them easier to kill. You don't necessarily have to drive them to knockdown in one volley.
Sensor lock isn't that useful on an LRM boat, but ruining plans early definitely can make a difference.
Getting an enemy mech to unstable early will strip them of evasive and generally make them easier to kill. You don't necessarily have to drive them to knockdown in one volley.
Sensor lock isn't that useful on an LRM boat, but ruining plans early definitely can make a difference.
I wonder at the usefulness of a close range brawler in the campaign. Sure melee is the quickest way to kill a mech in 3025 (always was in TT), but the increased damage you take getting close (and with many enemies around you) would seem to hurt your bottom line. Watching Bombadil's stream, I like how he picks off the OpFor and creates overlapping kill zones, in many ways it mirrors the style I have used in TT. I was thinking:
2x Gunnery/1xGuts for front line heavies
2xTactics/1xGunnery for missile boats
2xTactics/1xPiloting for scouts
But that could (and probably would) change as I played the game.
2x Gunnery/1xGuts for front line heavies
2xTactics/1xGunnery for missile boats
2xTactics/1xPiloting for scouts
But that could (and probably would) change as I played the game.
Keep in mind, for Juggernaut, there is a point where the initiative knockback is not going to be particularly important. Like we haven't heard of punching assaults making them losing their turn, for example.
Also, if you play the reserve game of reserving down to phase 1 to do the piloting 8 maneuvers of double-tapping with a light mech, the enemy might do the same thing and the initiative change won't matter.
Also, if you play the reserve game of reserving down to phase 1 to do the piloting 8 maneuvers of double-tapping with a light mech, the enemy might do the same thing and the initiative change won't matter.