Starting Magic Mega-Army

[unmerged(192917)]

This is my first game of CK2. I'm playing as Norway in 1066. I started with an army of 10,000, which I pulled back to Scandanavia to start thrashing the pagans.

This 10,000 man army is magic. I don't have to pay any gold per month for it. It didn't come out of any particular holding, so there's no noble whining that I've kept it too long. And best of all it doesn't count as a levy, so I I don't have to disband them to declare war.

1. How did Hardrade get this army, and how can I get another one? They're slowly getting whittled down from successive sieges and battles. Once they're gone, all my military options are limited and expensive. Is there some event that'll generate another magic mega-army, or it is all downhill from 1066?

2. Does this starting magic mega-army make any sense in terms of realism or history? It feels kinda silly to have 10,000 soldiers who don't need to be paid. Or fed, apparently.

 

[unmerged(587143)]

I believe all the Interesting Characters (tm) of the 1066 start get an army to reflect the war over England going on at the time. The assumption is presumably that you'll use them to attempt to take over England.

 

[Blitzzer]

He gets the army because he's supposed to be invading England with it.

Battle of Fulford
Battle of Stamford Bridge

 

[unmerged(192917)]

I would gladly have invaded England with it. But Hardrade died soon after the game started, and I lost my claim.

 

[Mattobro]

Well yeah, IRL Harald went over to England with his army to press his claim. Also IRL Harald had his army destroyed by the English and died. Due to all the nerfs on the saxons and norse in the starting scenario, you wouldn't of stood much of a chance either, so at least you put the starting stack to a better use.

 

[istoptime]

I know it is largely random but in a game I am currently playing Norway pretty much owns England, all AI as I am in France just holding my own.

 

[Mattobro]

I know it is largely random but in a game I am currently playing Norway pretty much owns England, all AI as I am in France just holding my own.

Maybe William and Harold wore each other out and Harald destroyed their armies, That's usually my strategy as Norway at 1066, the normans and saxons will kill each other off down the bottom occasionally, leaving Harald the English throne, that is if he doesn't die before the war ends

 

[Darkgamma]

When you lose the mega-army, you're back to normal.
You've essentially gamed the game - the army was meant to invade England, not whittle pagans.

 

[unmerged(192917)]

When you lose the mega-army, you're back to normal.
You've essentially gamed the game - the army was meant to invade England, not whittle pagans.

Hey, it's not my fault. I was winning in England. I hid in Scotland and watched with my spymaster while Harold and William tore each other up. Then I came down to clean up the mess. I was winning an easy 3-to-1 battle when Hardrada died, so I won the battle and lost my claim---and the war. I like to think that my Hardrada took a stray arrow to the eye, just like the real Harold probably did. Now I have a new policy in Norway: No more kings leading armies!

 

[Battle bunny]

I like to think that my Hardrada took a stray arrow to the eye,

You mean, knee?

Yeah, don't ever let your monarchs lead armies. Commanders die a lot more in this game than reasonable. And if they don't, wounds are commonplace and wounds beget illness, which is also bad. It's as though commanders had been frontline soldiers in the middle ages.

 

[Mattobro]

You mean, knee?

Yeah, don't ever let your monarchs lead armies. Commanders die a lot more in this game than reasonable. And if they don't, wounds are commonplace and wounds beget illness, which is also bad. It's as though commanders had been frontline soldiers in the middle ages.

Rulers rarely die in battle for me, I've only seen it happen once or twice, once while playing as Harold of Godwin against William I do see vassals die frequently though.

 

[Chazzen01]

Use this event and you will get a magic army of 20,000 men use it in succsession and you get amazing super army type in console: event 60004

Walla! look to the very right of the MAP and a magic army with no attrition or anything you described has appeared...your welcome.

EDIT: MAP

 

[Theruss]

Commander deaths are very random, you can go a while without a commander death. Then all of a sudden, you are slaying a commander every battle, and then your ruler gets killed in battle. My previous Muslim game, I was lucky enough to slay the Kaiser of the HRE in battle, that was a very nice surprise. :laugh:

 

[Battle bunny]

Commander deaths are very random, you can go a while without a commander death. Then all of a sudden, you are slaying a commander every battle, and then your ruler gets killed in battle. My previous Muslim game, I was lucky enough to slay the Kaiser of the HRE in battle, that was a very nice surprise. :laugh:

Actually, capturing and imprisoning him would have been really lucky. With my Lombardian Lollard ruler, I was lucky enough to win two or maybe three successive "French Wars to Restore the Papacy" by imprisoning the French king.

 

[Theruss]

Actually, capturing and imprisoning him would have been really lucky. With my Lombardian Lollard ruler, I was lucky enough to win two or maybe three successive "French Wars to Restore the Papacy" by imprisoning the French king.

Was it the same French King each time? :rofl:

 

[Battle bunny]

Was it the same French King each time? :rofl:

I'm not sure, to be honest, but it could be. I remember him being quite young the first time around.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Rulers rarely die in battle for me, I've only seen it happen once or twice, once while playing as Harold of Godwin against William I do see vassals die frequently though.

You must not have had them in battle at the worse possible time, because that's when they die (99% warscore in crusade).

 

[Kelly Hrdina]

Rulers rarely die in battle for me, I've only seen it happen once or twice, once while playing as Harold of Godwin against William I do see vassals die frequently though.

I had two Irish kings within 3 generations get bonked on the head during battle, to become Incapable. One of them was a good king, but the other was a Possessed maniac with not particularly good stats.

 

[unmerged(2609)]

Normandy, Norway, and England all get these big stacks.

If a ruler breaks away in an independence war, they will sometimes get a big stack.

I do not know if invasions normally give them, but I think I have seen huge stacks when some small Muslim nation tries to invade Egypt.

The stack you get is magic but casualties taken are permanent, so it will eventually erode.

I think it is an exploit to use this for other than its "intended" use, which is to try to take over England. When the war is over I think it makes most logical sense that it be disbanded. The AI seems to disband them after the war is over.

If you play as Normandy this makes things very difficult, because the "recently conquered" modifier is in full effect, and France will have a larger army by comparison. I can't see Norway having this problem.

 

[unmerged(192917)]

I think it is an exploit to use this for other than its "intended" use, which is to try to take over England. When the war is over I think it makes most logical sense that it be disbanded. The AI seems to disband them after the war is over.

If I disbanded the magic army, then Norway would start out in a deep hole. I figured that Norway was intended to be able to conquer something, so instead of England I'm steadily picking up Finland, Karelia, and little chunks of Sweden when my chancellor is able to commit a successful forgery.

When the magic 10,000 are gone, I won't own London or Westminster Abbey. Instead I'll own the wastelands of northern Scandinavia, populated with nothing but reindeer and angry pagans. It's not like I came out ahead on the deal.

I'm surprised that Paradox didn't come up with some more creative game mechanic to simulate the three-way fight for England. It's the cornerstone event that starts the timeline.

Maybe we can think of a fix for an upcoming patch. Here's my starting idea: Under the right conditions, including a strong claim on a big kingdom, the king can get an extra-big long-term levy from every holding in the kingdom. The catch is that the king promises to grant his vassals major holdings in the target kingdom. The king is effectively the promoter of a business venture, and the vassals are the co-owners. If the invasion fails, then the vassals will be angry. If the invasion succeeds and the king doesn't grant the holdings as promised, then the vassals will be furious.

The king can only propose this sort of invasion if there are enough holdings in the claimed area to double all his vassals' holdings. He can propose it like a law, and then he has to wait for buy-in from his vassals. If the vassals agree to the special levy, then they get cranky if the king doesn't seem to be using it for the promised purpose. Of if he seems to be losing.

I'm no expert on medieval history, but this is my understanding of how the real William put his army together before Hastings. After the battle, William wasn't handing out feudal titles for increased managerial efficiency. He was paying back his vassals for having borne the cost and risk of supporting the invasion.

This game mechanic would push against the current strategy of keeping vassals small and weak. The only way to get these special mega-levies is for the king to make his vassals more powerful, which will help the game produce results that better track history.

An expanded version of this game mechanic could have the king negotiating for the mega-levy with individual vassals. If the king needs a defensive mega-levy and there are no new holdings to promise the vassals, then the vassals could make additional demands, such as a reduction in taxes or royal authority. This could lead to an event vaguely like the Magna Carta, where the barons push back and the king gets weaker.

But I'm just talking off the cuff here. I just started playing this game, so I gladly defer to more experienced players on how such a new game mechanic might work. I just want to point out, as a new player, that these 1066 magic mega-armies devastate my suspension of disbelief.