Starbase modules & buildings

[The Boz]

Let's talk about starbase stuff for a moment, ok?
I love the new trade route and piracy protection mechanic, it was a significant step forward, and starbases sure feel more significant now in the military strategy department, but there are a lot more steps that can be made here. Mostly, I am tired of the same buildings and modules every time, with 0 reasons to use some of the others.

Modules
The three good, standard models that need no discussion are Shipyard, Anchorage, and Trading Hub. These work fine, for the most part.
But the defensive modules are... what? First off, if you need to protect yourself from attack, missile and hangar are convincingly the strongest options. Of the two, hangar is *clearly* the superior option for the piracy suppression effect. Gun battery sucks significantly hard. Why is it so clearly unbalanced like this? Also, update descriptions to make it clear that the bonuses ALSO AFFECT DEFENSE PLATFORMS.

Buildings
Now we get to the Fun Part™!
Command Center description should be updated to make it clear that the bonus ALSO AFFECTS DEFENSE PLATFORMS.
Communications Jammer is... well, eh. It makes it so that you win kinda harder the battles that you're also going to win, but you also take a tiny bit more losses.
Crew Quarters is frustrating to use. It should be system-wide, and not rely on you clicking "yes, please use this bonus, even though it is a clear choice with no competition".
Deep Space Black Site is good now. I like it. Maybe it could do something about authoritarianism, by increasing attraction or benefiting from an auth-only tech?
Defense Grid Supercomputer is reliable. Plop it down in a key defensive system, obvious best-in-slot.
Disruption Field Generator is kinda somewhat situational, but also reliable. Second-best-in-slot for defensive systems.
Fleet Academy is nice. Real nice. Auto-build wherever you have any amount of shipyard capacity.
Hydroponics Bay. Why are you not a module?
Hyperlane Registrar is shit. Absolute, pure, filtered, 100% concentrated shit. Idea: make it work in station's trade hub range. Then it *might* be less shit. Combat Disengagement Chance here is an insult to the rational mind.
Listening Post is... fully outclassed by the ability to construct unarmed, unshielded corvettes with sensors. Need make better.
Naval Logistics Office is good. As is Offworld Trading Company.
Resource Silo. Why are you not a module?
Target Upling Computer is almost good. In most fights it does not compare favorably to Command Center or Disruption Field Generator. Doubly so if fleet is present.
Black Hole Observatory/Nebula Refinery are good, I guess. Maybe Nebula could now be repurposed to make gas?
Titan Assembly Yards/Colossus Assembly Yards are... not in need of updating.
Art College/Curator Think Tank are fine. Why is there no mercantile module for the Corp enclave?

There are a good number of candidates for fusing together, moving around, or creating new stuff. If Resource and Hydroponics became modules, new buildings could be made for supporting those the same way Naval Logistics and Offworld Trading works.

 

[The Boz]

Been pondering about the new support buildings...
Smoothest idea I think is giving them +1 (Physics for Resource, Social for Hydroponics) Research per module. Not a huge bonus, not as big as BHO/CTT, but neat to have.
It's odd that sectors are now a defined thing, but not really integrated into the game. It'd be neat to give +0.5% sector-wide growth per hydroponics, for example.

 

[Matoro_TBS]

Most of the buildings with some combat buff or debuff in the system feel very... bad. They are only useful in designated choke-point systems, and even then there's a lot of them that are juts pure trash. I'd hope those buildings were a lot stronger, like making Jammer completely deny the enemy ability to do an emergency jump.

I'm glad silos and farms are buildings instead of modules so that I can fill building slots with actually useful stuff. There's already so many useful modules I don't want more :/

 

[The Boz]

They're buildings now only because "Hmm, what can I plop down on this starbase I made a fortress just so I can fit 6 anchorages and not lose the slots?"

 

[WhapXI]

But the defensive modules are... what? First off, if you need to protect yourself from attack, missile and hangar are convincingly the strongest options.

Both missiles and hangars are more-or-less fully invalidated by a fleet with sufficient PD. If they were the only option for building bastions then it would be extremely easy to create an anti-bastion force with enough PD to take zero damage from them. Guns at least being conventional weapons mean that they don't have to be defenseless against PD. I'm just surprised that there isn't a laser array module yet.

 

[The Boz]

A fleet with sufficient PD to negate the missile or hangar starbase would either:
a) be significantly more powerful than the starbase
2) lose to the starbase's defensive platforms if of equal "power"
iii) take so long to kill the starbase that reinforcements easily arrive
There are, in my experience, very few situations where "starbase missiles are countered by fleet PD" actually happens.

 

[Volapyk]

With the massive amount of PD the ai tends to run, are missile and hangar bays really better for a defensive platform?

 

[The Boz]

You'd be surprised. In my three running games right now, they've been very effective. High-PD rail-gun-armed fleets of 1-2k fleet power were consistently not able to destroy a 2k starbase with 4 hangars and a few low-tech laser platforms.

 

[Dr. Chaos]

A fleet with sufficient PD to negate the missile or hangar starbase would either:
a) be significantly more powerful than the starbase
2) lose to the starbase's defensive platforms if of equal "power"
iii) take so long to kill the starbase that reinforcements easily arrive
There are, in my experience, very few situations where "starbase missiles are countered by fleet PD" actually happens.

Sorry sir, you have been reported for that listing...

 

[Flame13223]

First off, if you need to protect yourself from attack, missile and hangar are convincingly the strongest options. Of the two, hangar is *clearly* the superior option for the piracy suppression effect. Gun battery sucks significantly hard. Why is it so clearly unbalanced like this? Also, update descriptions to make it clear that the bonuses ALSO AFFECT DEFENSE PLATFORMS.

I disagrree, the AI builds PDD's nonstop in every possible slot so missiles and ships suck hard.

Hyperlane Registrar is shit. Absolute, pure, filtered, 100% concentrated shit. Idea: make it work in station's trade hub range. Then it *might* be less shit. Combat Disengagement Chance here is an insult to the rational mind.

It would still be garbage imho. When moving between systems 99% of the time spent is the actual moving with ship speed and only 1% is the FTL.


I think we just need a bunch more buildings and modules in general, simply re-designing old ones won't suffice.

 

[Pyoro]

Why separate the slot types anyway? Have unique modules and non-unique modules and otherwise let the players play around.

 

[The Boz]

Why separate the slot types anyway? Have unique modules and non-unique modules and otherwise let the players play around.

Entirely unbad idea.

 

[Atreides]

So I really like the overall design idea with starbases in 2.2 that integrated them with your trade network. Some of the not so good modules/buildings do need buffed. What I would prefer to see though is more module slots so the multidisciplinary SB that 2.2 encourages would work better. If module slots were 4/6/8/10 instead of the current 2/4/6/6 creating starbases that are 3 tradehubs, 2 hangers and a shipyard could be a thing for the early game.

 

[The Boz]

..this assumes no difference between modules and buildings? Or just a straight buff to capacity?

 

[AlanC9]

Communications Jammer is... well, eh. It makes it so that you win kinda harder the battles that you're also going to win, but you also take a tiny bit more losses.

Don't underrate this. Blowing up a ship is a lot better than forcing it to retreat.

 

[Xeorm]

Why separate the slot types anyway? Have unique modules and non-unique modules and otherwise let the players play around.

Because then they'd have to communicate on which are unique and non-unique to create more UI issues and it's nice to have limited decisions. Building an anchorage starbase and having leftover building slots forces the player to make a decision on what's remaining, which can be fun. Makes for a good design at least.

So I really like the overall design idea with starbases in 2.2 that integrated them with your trade network. Some of the not so good modules/buildings do need buffed. What I would prefer to see though is more module slots so the multidisciplinary SB that 2.2 encourages would work better. If module slots were 4/6/8/10 instead of the current 2/4/6/6 creating starbases that are 3 tradehubs, 2 hangers and a shipyard could be a thing for the early game.

I'd love that. Especially with the new trade integration. Or some other change. 6 modules doesn't feel like enough, and the last upgrade especially feels dull.