Star Wars Mod Idea: Will of the Force

[Red Cesar]

Yes, but we want a game focused on the characters. Vicky, nor EU are good for that.

 

[Jedrek]

I admit we're getting quite chimerical in here. I also want the focus on individual characters - and CK seems to be the only platform to do so. DH is fine... But after playing countless hours I can't really get the pleasure from this game. Besides, it is very "inhumane" in its approach - people are just tiny pictures, with no individualised personality whatsoever. Sure thing, they can be given individual "personalities" - but these are just modifiers for units and industry. Dunno about Vicky 2. We'll see how the star map and other mechanics work out. If there's no reasonable way to recreate Galaxy-wide mechanics, we always have a backup plan.

 

[HMatsunaga54]

As far I know the government of "state" depends on the first holding of the province, all you have to do is have the supreme chancellor's first holding as city so it's a republic. If your going into make the sith and jedi main holdings temples, then they would be theocracies.

 

[Spartanlemur]

The way I see it, it would be best to set it during the time of the Sith Empire, as this period provides us with a clear Catholicism/Islam parallel. I'm not sure about how the Republic will work, but am hopeful that a republics dlc will come out which will solve our problem. Prior to the inevitable Republics dlc though, there's no reason why a good sith empire cannot be developed.

The Empire would function much like the HRE/ERE (depending on whether elective/dynastic is preferable) with minor sith lords being vassals of the sith emperor. Rather than having sons, sith would have max fertility set at 16/be celibate and instead take a single apprentice through an event. If this apprentice is weak, the father/master can try to kill him (chance the weak apprentice gets lucky though proportional to his martial). All sith have the immortal trait, so the apprentice becomes one's backup plan in case they get killed duelling a jedi (we could ask permission to use the duel engine which GoT also uses for this, but change the flavour). Sith lords rule forever unless they get killed by event/in battle. The apprentice is their son, in game terms.
That would be all that is needed for a basic system, and I feel that Sith and CK2 are a really good fit for each other. That system could then be expanded on in successive releases to enable sith to kill their master (son duels father) among other flavourful events.
If Paradox give us an awesome Republics dlc, then that would work great with the SW republic. In the meantime, for 0.1, the republic would have to be modelled like a large version of Venice. Not sure how to do races at the moment. Hopefully once the Elder Scrolls mod releases we'll get a better idea of how that can be done effectively.
I'm going to spend a few hours tomorrow continuing to play around with the map and put together a sample system.

 

[Jedrek]

I generally like the idea of putting the mod during The Old Republic game's period. It offers enough flexibility to, for example, add the backstory of the Republic splintering some decades after the Treaty of Coruscant - thus allowing us to have a number of independent factions.

I wouldn't count for Republic DLC's "inevitable" release - after cancelling Magna Mundi just weeks before release, Paradox has greatly impaired my trust. I've just made a short test - it is possible to grant playable counties as vassals to duchy-scale republics, but there are references to king and emperor-scale city titles - so maybe it is possible after all. If the Chancellor is made an empire-scale republic, than we can put both republics and monarchies (or military goverments) as his "vassals". Additionally, if the elective succession works the way I think, we'd have true Chancellor elections, with senators (aka vassals) voting.

As of the Sith - I like the idea of making the Emperor immortal, although we'd have to put some failsafe mechanism so that illness won't kill him. The apprientace system doesn't need limiting to one apprientace per Sith - the Rule of Two has not yet been implemented, and KotOR 1 shows us a pretty nice example of a Sith academy where masters teach multiple students - just like the later Jedi Praxeum on Yavin IV.

Races... My idea would be to make them separate culture groups and include negative modifiers for accepting any bethrotal/marriage proposal between different races, with perhaps some exceptions if the races are closely related (such as humans and near-humans). But I haven't taken a deeper look into the CK2 mechanics, so I don't know what's hard-coded and what's not.

And as of a team - I can code events as soon as I get a grip of the present system. I've got some EU2 and DH experience, but it seems the Clausewitz engine is quite different in many aspects. Plus, I return to unversity for my final year in October, and I don't know how much would that limit my time.

 

[Spartanlemur]

I generally like the idea of putting the mod during The Old Republic game's period. It offers enough flexibility to, for example, add the backstory of the Republic splintering some decades after the Treaty of Coruscant - thus allowing us to have a number of independent factions.

I wouldn't count for Republic DLC's "inevitable" release - after cancelling Magna Mundi just weeks before release, Paradox has greatly impaired my trust. I've just made a short test - it is possible to grant playable counties as vassals to duchy-scale republics, but there are references to king and emperor-scale city titles - so maybe it is possible after all. If the Chancellor is made an empire-scale republic, than we can put both republics and monarchies (or military goverments) as his "vassals". Additionally, if the elective succession works the way I think, we'd have true Chancellor elections, with senators (aka vassals) voting.

As of the Sith - I like the idea of making the Emperor immortal, although we'd have to put some failsafe mechanism so that illness won't kill him. The apprientace system doesn't need limiting to one apprientace per Sith - the Rule of Two has not yet been implemented, and KotOR 1 shows us a pretty nice example of a Sith academy where masters teach multiple students - just like the later Jedi Praxeum on Yavin IV.

Races... My idea would be to make them separate culture groups and include negative modifiers for accepting any bethrotal/marriage proposal between different races, with perhaps some exceptions if the races are closely related (such as humans and near-humans). But I haven't taken a deeper look into the CK2 mechanics, so I don't know what's hard-coded and what's not.

And as of a team - I can code events as soon as I get a grip of the present system. I've got some EU2 and DH experience, but it seems the Clausewitz engine is quite different in many aspects. Plus, I return to unversity for my final year in October, and I don't know how much would that limit my time.

I suppose it may be worth at least trying to make a system which makes the republic playable without dlc, as not having "good guys" playable would be quite a hefty sacrifice.

If we are to use multiple apprentices then we would have to devise a succession mechanic which ensures that down to the county level the strongest apprentice inherits while the others are dealt with somehow. Imperial officers can be used for barons and mayors while I'm not quite sure what role bishoprics could play.

I return to university for my second year later this month, but I shouldn't be *too* busy (certainly less so than a finalist ). It would be great to get more people involved though, as there is nothing more tedious then trawling through endless provinces individually naming temples cities and castles. I'm also not that knowledgeable on star wars lore myself at the moment . As far as my own experience goes, I've completed a brand new map before and have experience doing the tedious stuff. Can't say I've done events though, or anything on that level.

 

[el_zilcho321]

All these ideas sound great, on the issue of the map I would go for planets. I would definitely play this mod. Maybe wait until republic DLC so you can have a republic and sith empire during SWTOR time.

Also,has anyone else done a topic on lotr? It's a shame we have not seen lotr in a paradox mod yet.

 

[Jedrek]

Well, I considered myself to be well educated in Star Wars lore... But then came Legacy of the Force books and the Clone Wars series. ^^' Still there's always the excellent reference source called Wookiepedia, perhaps rivaling only the original Wiki in details and size.

Sith inheiritance... I guess there's a mechanism that compares selected attributes of two characters, otherwise we wouldn't have those annoying "I'd be a better chancellor than X" events. Individual Sith's "power" can be calculated by comparing respective attributes. All in all, Sith are not only about raw power - Sidious is a fine example of a plotting Sith, but his marial skills were (IMHO) inferior to Vader or Revan's. Well, let's be honest - Revan would be 99/99/99/99/99. Even using EU3 scale of 3-9

As of holding bishoprics - they can be converted to research or industrial complexes, IMHO. That'd make random succession reasonable, as well as make them fit into the SW Galaxy. Some planets (like Kuat or Balmorra during the Galactic Civil War) could be given county-scale bishoprics, to reflect their importance as industrial centres (Kuat is a huge shipyard, while Balmorra is a home to famous Imperial walkers).

I was thinking about inheiritance mechanism - we need a way to allow the player to choose his successor without causing the game to end. There are event commands to adopt a person as a member of the family - at least I can't see the other way for the legitimized bastard system to work. Here's my proposal:

1) If the person is a Sith, the last apprientace standing triggers a succession event and gets "adopted". Alternatively, if he decides to kill his master off before other apprientaces are dead, the event chain forces the player to accept him as successor.
2) If the person is a Jedi, the question is simple - the padawan gets adopted as soon as he begins training.
3) If the person is a military commander - we can give him a decision to "Nominate my successor".
4) If the person is a member of royality - I trust the readers' intelligence here

Once the map is ready, I may start working on some basic coding.

 

[imperium3]

I think the Galactic Republic could be modelled pretty well as an elective empire (as the game understands it), actually (with leader title being Supreme Chancellor, of course). After all, the senators would probably vote along with what their planetary overlords want, so we can abstract them and just allow duke/king level characters (presumably leaders of planets and sectors) to have a vote.

The trouble with having it be a republic is that they aren't very well fleshed out, and wouldn't it lead to the Supreme Chancellor always being a randomly-generated nobody?

WRT the Sith system, how about adopting apprentices in the same way as you suggest for the Jedi, as soon as they begin training? So the lineage of training would continue in case the master is killed by some other cause. Then (IDK how feasible this is) an event chain could trigger representing struggles for supremacy between the remaining apprentices. Including alliances, single combat, and murders. Perhaps the default succession could be the Muslim succession in which the apprentice holding the most land is the heir as far as playability goes, although this would be superseded by the event chain and them killing one another. And only when there is one of the "dynasty" left, is he accepted as master.

This would of course make playing Sith a little risky, since there'd always be a danger of the new master getting himself killed before he finds himself a new apprentice.

 

[Prime624]

Also,has anyone else done a topic on lotr? It's a shame we have not seen lotr in a paradox mod yet.

Yes, but no. I also thought lotr would be great, but elves cant' marry dwarves can't marry humans etc... And elves don't die of old age, a big reliance in CKII. The main way to get land besides war is to inherit it, but without that it would not be good.

EDIT: I believe there is a lotr mod for some PI game, but I don't know for sure.

 

[UpperLorraine]

Another setting could be the New Sith Wars, when the Jedi Order basically organized a military junta and took control of the Republic up to the battle of Ruusan. I think it would be easier to express in the mechanics instead of trying to wing a full Republic.

 

[Arko]

EDIT: I believe there is a lotr mod for some PI game, but I don't know for sure.

for CK1

 

[el_zilcho321]

I can really see this working.

You can make empires for the core systems, the outer rim and the unknown area (where the sith in SWTOR are). But give the sith a titular empire or whatever it's called so they are the "sith" empire. And the republic as well.

 

[Spartanlemur]

After spending a couple of hours constructing a sample of a galaxy with a planet, I've two images to show for it. While these are far more refined than the previous image of Iceland, there may be some minor things which can be done to bring up the contrast somewhat. Suns remain something which I have no idea of how to do with the map files. The edges around Tatooine are not amazing, but then I think that is a consequence of any land/water border in the game.

 

[Prime624]

^^ Those are great! I can't wait for this to take off.

 

[Red Cesar]

We've found the chosen one.

 

[UpperLorraine]

Bravo.

I think Skype would be advantageous to sit down and devise some mechanics and principles, as well as decide on the period?

 

[Red Cesar]

Steam works fairly well too.

 

[Jedrek]

Good job on Tatooine

I have decided to do some work of my own as well

Plus the events. I have no idea how to check if they really give around 10% of children population between 1 and 6 the Force Sensitive trait - I guess I'll have to run yet another test game and simply count the childer up manually... In this test game, test character produced 4 offspring before dying out - 2 of whom got the Force Sensitive trait. I guess 50% inheritance chance with one Force Sensitive parent is what we may consider to be a rational amount.

############################################
#
# Events regarding the Force
# 
# ID 500000 - 500999 reserved
# 
############################################
#
# Designed & written by Jakub Dudek aka Jedrek

# A child feels the Force for the first time (Force sensitive parents)
character_event = {
	id = 500000
	desc = "EVTDESC500000"
	picture = GFX_evt_throne_room

	age = 1
	max_age = 6
	capable_only = yes

	trigger = {
		OR = {
			mother = { is_alive = yes trait = force_sensitive }
			father = { is_alive = yes trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		NOT = { trait = force_sensitive }
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 72

		modifier = { 
			factor = 0.75
			father = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		modifier = { 
			factor = 0.85
			father = { trait = force_strong }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			mother = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.85
			mother = { trait = force_strong }
		}
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA500000"
		add_trait = force_sensitive
		father = {
			character_event = {
				id = 500001
				days = 2
				tooltip = "EVTTIP500001"
			}
		}
		mother = {
			character_event = {
				id = 500001
				days = 2
				tooltip = "EVTTIP500001"
			}
		}
	}
}

# Parents are notified about the child's Force sensitivity
character_event = {
	id = 500001
	desc = "EVTDESC500001"
	picture = GFX_evt_guardian
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA500001"
		prestige = 5
	}
}

# A child feels the Force for the first time (non-Force sensitive parents)
character_event = {
	id = 500002
	desc = "EVTDESC500002"
	picture = GFX_evt_throne_room

	age = 1
	max_age = 6
	capable_only = yes

	trigger = {
		OR = {
			mother = { is_alive = yes }
			father = { is_alive = yes }
		}
		NOT = {
			trait = force_sensitive
			mother = { trait = force_sensitive }
			father = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 600

		modifier = {
			factor = 0.9
			any_dynasty_member = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.9
			any_dynasty_member = { trait = force_strong }
		}
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA500002"
		add_trait = force_sensitive
		random = { 
			chance = 40
			add_trait = stressed
			set_character_flag = force_stress
			hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38282 } }
		}
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB500002"
		add_trait = force_sensitive
		father = {
			character_event = {
				id = 500003
				days = 2
				tooltip = "EVTTIP500003"
			}
		}
		mother = {
			character_event = {
				id = 500003
				days = 2
				tooltip = "EVTTIP500003"
			}
		}
	}
}

character_event = {
	id = 500003
	desc = "EVTDESC500003"
	picture = GFX_evt_guardian
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA500003"
		prestige = 5
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB500003"
		ROOT = {
			character_event = {
				id = 500004
				tooltip = "EVTTIP500004"
			}
		}
	}
}

character_event = {
	id = 500004
	desc = "EVTDESC500004"
	picture = GFX_evt_guardian
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA500004"
		add_trait = shy
		hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38263 } }
		random_list = {
			50 = {}
			50 = { add_trait = stressed hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38282 } } set_character_flag = force_stress }
		}
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB500004"
		add_trait = proud
		hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38261 } }
		random_list = {
			5 = {}
			45 = { add_trait = diligent hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38256 } } }
			45 = { add_trait = wroth hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38254 } } }
		}
	}
}

# A child feels the Force for the first time (orphan)
character_event = {
	id = 500005
	desc = "EVTDESC500005"
	picture = GFX_evt_throne_room

	age = 1
	max_age = 6
	capable_only = yes

	trigger = {
		mother = { is_alive = no }
		father = { is_alive = no }

		NOT = {
			trait = force_sensitive
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 600

		modifier = {
			factor = 0.9
			any_dynasty_member = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.9
			any_dynasty_member = { trait = force_strong }
		}
		modifier = { 
			factor = 0.5
			father = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		modifier = { 
			factor = 0.75
			father = { trait = force_strong }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			mother = { trait = force_sensitive }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			mother = { trait = force_strong }
		}
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA500005"
		add_trait = force_sensitive
		random = { 
			chance = 60
			add_trait = stressed
			set_character_flag = force_stress
			hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38282 } }
		}
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB500005"
		add_trait = force_sensitive
		random_list = {
			35 = { add_trait = brave hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38270 } } }
			65 = { add_trait = wroth hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38254 } } }
		}
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTC500005"
		add_trait = force_sensitive
		random_list = {
			35 = { add_trait = diligent hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38256 } } }
			65 = { add_trait = proud hidden_tooltip = { character_event = { id = 38261 } } }
		}
	}
}

I'm totally for making some kind of conference and formally establishing a team of some sort. Skype's fine, although I don't think voice chat's the best idea.

EDIT: Don't ask about the faces. I did not graphic changes, apart from adding icons. Must have something to do with the GIMPing I made to paste the second infobox.

 

[UpperLorraine]

Jedrek, I sent you my Skype contact info.

When you really think of it, the Republic Senate isn't going to be quite so difficult to simulate - we could establish every planet as a "County" and simply replace the title "Count" with "Senator"; then script events that simply allow every Senator a vote, which is more or less already done with Electoral HRE.