So... I may try doing the Force system, but I have absolutely no experience in graphics. So, unless someone makes a map, portraits, etc, I can't really see the idea to get going...
Star Wars Mod Idea: Will of the Force
- Thread starter ZechsMerquise73
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I'd volunteer, but I have about the modding skills of a circus orangutan.
The most important thing is a map to start with - portraits aren't necessary till after the mod is playable. The basic shape of the map is incredibly easy to do (Domes on the topology file, with suns being larger and impassable), but the difficulty would be texturing it so the galaxy does not appear like a collection of large green domes protruding from the sea. Anyone know how it might be possible to add vivid textures to the map? The closest I came when trying 20 minutes ago was when I put a stars texture on underwater terrain, but that was dulled by the water above. If water is unable to be space (which may have opened the possibility of sparkling stars based on the current effect the game does on the water), then low-height land would have to be space while dome like planets protrude. I might have ago at the land idea later/tomorrow.
I still don't feel convinced to the star map idea, but I start to believe I'm in minority here... ^^'
It just seems more...realistic, fun, and letting people see the full potential of a great idea.
Well, consider this to be my last ditch attempt to explain why I think a full Galaxy map is not as good as it may seem.
1) Navy. Let's be honest - Star Wars pretty much equals space combat. I'd understand making star maps in Victoria or HoI mods, where we got a full-fledged naval system, with numerous ship types, complex naval combat tand stuff. All we got in CK2 are ferries, which can't even engage one another. Having a star map without an opportunity to perform actions like orbital bombardments, blockades and so on wouldn't serve the atmosphere well.
2) Which planets to include? Star Wars galaxy consists of at least 2-3 thousands of planets. Surely, most of them are cameos or of little importance (like Anoat or Fornax), but still we have at least a hundred that should be included. I'm afraid that would make the map insanely hard to read. On the other hand, limiting the amount of planets to several dozens would make the Galaxy look riddiculously small - anyone played Empire at War in here?
3) How are the planets supposed to be represented? Making all of them single provinces wouldn't make much sense during warfare - you can't just conquer the planet in one assault, despite what SW films show (Still, keep in mind that film-depicted invasions are quite specific - Hoth was a single base on a desolate planet, Naboo surrendered without puttin up a fight and Geonosis was more of a raid than a full-scale invasion. Perhaps the only think I like about Clone Wars series is that they show that conquering a planet is a tiresome and time consuming stuff). If they are to be divided into several provinces, then they'd have to look like pie charts (unless there is a way to make landlocked provinces that are still accessable via sea).
In case anyone accused me of non-constructive criticism - here are my proposals:
1) If we limit the mod to one planet, we can explain the lack of naval combat easily, blaming it on SW convention - the only naval forces I've seen in SW were a bunch of comics showing Imperial hovercraft made on AT-AT chassis.
2) Using a single planet relieves us from worrying about which planets to include/exclude in the scenario. Plus, this allows us to be much more flexible in choosing which alien races are supposed to appear and so on.
3) Storyline. I think the best place in time to put the mod's story would be somewhere around 800 years BBY - far enough from both the Knights of the Old Republic and prequels' timelines for us not to disturb the canon. From what I know, there are no novels or comics dealing with this period, so we can move quite freely when it comes to names, characters and so on. As of justifying why the mod is limited to one planet, I'd propose the following:
Around 815 BBY, the Republic scout fleet has discovered a previously unknown nebula beyond the Outer Rim territories. Any attempts to examine this new discovery failed, due to a powerful electromagnetic field pulsating from the nebula, effictively jamming all sensors, communications and disrupting other electronic systems of the research craft. The discovery was largely ignored by the Senate and Navy - the only party that has shown some interest was the Jedi Order. Meditating on the discovery, one member of the Jedi Council felt a strong disturbances in the Force, coming from the mysterious nebula's direction. The Jedi mounted an expedition on their own, hoping the Force would guide them where the machines can't.
Upon entiring the nebula the ship's system went completely blank, forcing the expedition to drift in the gaseous cloud. Strangely, the electromagnetic pulsation disrupted even the Force, effectively cutting the Jedis out of the rest of the Galaxy. After several month of drifting, they reached the centre of the nebula. There they discovered a lone, dying star - possibly a remnant of a nova - orbited by several small planets. Curiously, they could feel the lifeforms living on the largest of them. Sentinet ones...
So, the base assumptions are:
-> The nebula prevents all communication with the outside world. Ships may enter (which can be represented by random events about a craft crash landing on the planet), but there is no way to call for help
-> The electromagnetic radiation disables navigation computers, engines and stuff. Basically, there is no way out of the planet.
-> The planet may be inhibited by some made-up race, or by descendants of previous castaways. This way we can include numerous other races (Twi'leks, Rodians, Zabraks, Chiss perhaps?), as well as members of different Force traditions, cultures and so on. Mandalorians? Sure thing.
-> This way we could have members of different Sith creeds as well, despite the Rule of Two already being enforced by Darth Bane. Plus possible mutations. Same goes for the Jedi and other Force traditions - they may be members of castaways from some forgotten expeditions.
4) The feudal system. Well, we have to somehow adapt it - even if we remove all de jure kingdoms and empires, there'd still be baronies. Here is what I propose:
-> Some cultures as well enough still use some mutation of the feudal system - all in all, in SW we have count Dooku.
-> Non-feudal cultures may use military hierarchy - with titles being, for example lieutenant (baron) // commader (count) // warlord (duke) // general (king) // supreme commander (emperor). Being a castaway on an alien planet is a fine time to organise - and military organisation is so far the most efficient one, IMHO.
-> Baronies may become military outposts, cities may remain as towns, and bishoprics may become research facilities
-> Inheritance doesn't really seem much out of place in SW - all in all let's be honest - who's going to be the new Grand Master when Lucas finally decides to kill Luke off? I bet on Ben.
OK, that'd be all. Signing off
1) Navy. Let's be honest - Star Wars pretty much equals space combat. I'd understand making star maps in Victoria or HoI mods, where we got a full-fledged naval system, with numerous ship types, complex naval combat tand stuff. All we got in CK2 are ferries, which can't even engage one another. Having a star map without an opportunity to perform actions like orbital bombardments, blockades and so on wouldn't serve the atmosphere well.
2) Which planets to include? Star Wars galaxy consists of at least 2-3 thousands of planets. Surely, most of them are cameos or of little importance (like Anoat or Fornax), but still we have at least a hundred that should be included. I'm afraid that would make the map insanely hard to read. On the other hand, limiting the amount of planets to several dozens would make the Galaxy look riddiculously small - anyone played Empire at War in here?
3) How are the planets supposed to be represented? Making all of them single provinces wouldn't make much sense during warfare - you can't just conquer the planet in one assault, despite what SW films show (Still, keep in mind that film-depicted invasions are quite specific - Hoth was a single base on a desolate planet, Naboo surrendered without puttin up a fight and Geonosis was more of a raid than a full-scale invasion. Perhaps the only think I like about Clone Wars series is that they show that conquering a planet is a tiresome and time consuming stuff). If they are to be divided into several provinces, then they'd have to look like pie charts (unless there is a way to make landlocked provinces that are still accessable via sea).
In case anyone accused me of non-constructive criticism - here are my proposals:
1) If we limit the mod to one planet, we can explain the lack of naval combat easily, blaming it on SW convention - the only naval forces I've seen in SW were a bunch of comics showing Imperial hovercraft made on AT-AT chassis.
2) Using a single planet relieves us from worrying about which planets to include/exclude in the scenario. Plus, this allows us to be much more flexible in choosing which alien races are supposed to appear and so on.
3) Storyline. I think the best place in time to put the mod's story would be somewhere around 800 years BBY - far enough from both the Knights of the Old Republic and prequels' timelines for us not to disturb the canon. From what I know, there are no novels or comics dealing with this period, so we can move quite freely when it comes to names, characters and so on. As of justifying why the mod is limited to one planet, I'd propose the following:
Around 815 BBY, the Republic scout fleet has discovered a previously unknown nebula beyond the Outer Rim territories. Any attempts to examine this new discovery failed, due to a powerful electromagnetic field pulsating from the nebula, effictively jamming all sensors, communications and disrupting other electronic systems of the research craft. The discovery was largely ignored by the Senate and Navy - the only party that has shown some interest was the Jedi Order. Meditating on the discovery, one member of the Jedi Council felt a strong disturbances in the Force, coming from the mysterious nebula's direction. The Jedi mounted an expedition on their own, hoping the Force would guide them where the machines can't.
Upon entiring the nebula the ship's system went completely blank, forcing the expedition to drift in the gaseous cloud. Strangely, the electromagnetic pulsation disrupted even the Force, effectively cutting the Jedis out of the rest of the Galaxy. After several month of drifting, they reached the centre of the nebula. There they discovered a lone, dying star - possibly a remnant of a nova - orbited by several small planets. Curiously, they could feel the lifeforms living on the largest of them. Sentinet ones...
So, the base assumptions are:
-> The nebula prevents all communication with the outside world. Ships may enter (which can be represented by random events about a craft crash landing on the planet), but there is no way to call for help
-> The electromagnetic radiation disables navigation computers, engines and stuff. Basically, there is no way out of the planet.
-> The planet may be inhibited by some made-up race, or by descendants of previous castaways. This way we can include numerous other races (Twi'leks, Rodians, Zabraks, Chiss perhaps?), as well as members of different Force traditions, cultures and so on. Mandalorians? Sure thing.
-> This way we could have members of different Sith creeds as well, despite the Rule of Two already being enforced by Darth Bane. Plus possible mutations. Same goes for the Jedi and other Force traditions - they may be members of castaways from some forgotten expeditions.
4) The feudal system. Well, we have to somehow adapt it - even if we remove all de jure kingdoms and empires, there'd still be baronies. Here is what I propose:
-> Some cultures as well enough still use some mutation of the feudal system - all in all, in SW we have count Dooku.
-> Non-feudal cultures may use military hierarchy - with titles being, for example lieutenant (baron) // commader (count) // warlord (duke) // general (king) // supreme commander (emperor). Being a castaway on an alien planet is a fine time to organise - and military organisation is so far the most efficient one, IMHO.
-> Baronies may become military outposts, cities may remain as towns, and bishoprics may become research facilities
-> Inheritance doesn't really seem much out of place in SW - all in all let's be honest - who's going to be the new Grand Master when Lucas finally decides to kill Luke off? I bet on Ben.
OK, that'd be all. Signing off
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Each planet can be two provinces, or four. Something to break into easy, symmetrical pieces. I am totally in favor of a "galactic" map. A good hundred planets would serve the purpose.
On the other hand, I think this is the entirely wrong game to be doing this in. I definitely think this should be moved to Victoria 2, which has:
A)Colonization
B)Advanced Demographics System
C)Simple but meaningful political system
D)Directed revolts
E)Easier map to Mod
F)Multiple Unit types
G)Meaningful Tech Tree
Yes, you would be sacrificing your individual characters but gaining a much more sensical system everywhere else.
On the other hand, I think this is the entirely wrong game to be doing this in. I definitely think this should be moved to Victoria 2, which has:
A)Colonization
B)Advanced Demographics System
C)Simple but meaningful political system
D)Directed revolts
E)Easier map to Mod
F)Multiple Unit types
G)Meaningful Tech Tree
Yes, you would be sacrificing your individual characters but gaining a much more sensical system everywhere else.
As of me, that'd be sacrificing the mod alltogether, since I can't buy Victoria II in any forseeable future...
No, fuck Victoria 2. We're sticking with CK2, period!
Now, lets continue this debate like sensible adults. If we can find a way, (Most likely difficult), to establish a star system like map, then I say we try. Doesn't have to be the whole galaxy, maybe just a single system?
Now, if we've exhausted ourselves and can't, well go with Jedrek's idea.
All agreed?
Now, lets continue this debate like sensible adults. If we can find a way, (Most likely difficult), to establish a star system like map, then I say we try. Doesn't have to be the whole galaxy, maybe just a single system?
Now, if we've exhausted ourselves and can't, well go with Jedrek's idea.
All agreed?
As much as I like Vicky 2, CK2 is better IMO, and I've been playing the latter far more recently.
An entire (more or less - it would use the SWTOR regions and from there the most important planets would be added) galaxy is possible in the map. Underwater terrain is a space texture while the noise on top of the water is deleted. I've uploaded a screenshot I took after playing around with the map folder for 15 mins just now.
Imagine Iceland to be round, first of all, but also a semi-important planet (having two regions). More important planets like coruscant are divided into say, 7 provinces; while planets of lesser importance would only have one. Suns might be possible, although I'm not entirely certain of this.
I don't think we need to worry about orbital bombardments either, as these aren't *that* important. The ship model can be replaced with a star wars spaceship, and if PI add in naval combat later (a frequently requested feature), we'll get our orbital battles.
An entire (more or less - it would use the SWTOR regions and from there the most important planets would be added) galaxy is possible in the map. Underwater terrain is a space texture while the noise on top of the water is deleted. I've uploaded a screenshot I took after playing around with the map folder for 15 mins just now.
Imagine Iceland to be round, first of all, but also a semi-important planet (having two regions). More important planets like coruscant are divided into say, 7 provinces; while planets of lesser importance would only have one. Suns might be possible, although I'm not entirely certain of this.
I don't think we need to worry about orbital bombardments either, as these aren't *that* important. The ship model can be replaced with a star wars spaceship, and if PI add in naval combat later (a frequently requested feature), we'll get our orbital battles.
I admit this looks quite impressive. I think I'll start researching the traits tommorow, so that we can at least see how this works
For whatever I can contribute, I'm in if you'll have me.
I agree that a varying number of provinces is appropriate for different planets. A waste like Hoth with a population of 0 shouldn't take the same effort to conquest as Coruscant or Corellia. I vote against suns because they play no part; however, gas giants like Bespin with settlements like Cloud City should be represented.
Further, as correctly stated, we don't have to have the entire galaxy. If you notice, big events in the EU like the Mandalorian Wars take place in a limited area anyway.
I agree that a varying number of provinces is appropriate for different planets. A waste like Hoth with a population of 0 shouldn't take the same effort to conquest as Coruscant or Corellia. I vote against suns because they play no part; however, gas giants like Bespin with settlements like Cloud City should be represented.
Further, as correctly stated, we don't have to have the entire galaxy. If you notice, big events in the EU like the Mandalorian Wars take place in a limited area anyway.
Well, if its a galactic maps, suns would be a key part of the art, and feel of the game....Anything non-modding related I can do to help?
I am also technically ignorant here - I'd do best in Design and story.
Speaking of which, I think it would be best to establish a team and the plot first, and figure out how to take advantage of CK2 features from there. Build around the story.
Speaking of which, I think it would be best to establish a team and the plot first, and figure out how to take advantage of CK2 features from there. Build around the story.
I mean, its an already created universe....we don't really need to make a plot or anything of the sort.
Or do we? SW universe spawns over roughly 4500 years of well-described history, with quite a lot of earlier background history developed as well (the origins of the Order, the SIth and stuff). There are sever timelines, providing detailed backgrounds for following periods:
~4000 - 3800 BBY -> Knights of the Old Republic and The Old Republic
40 - 19 BBY -> Prequels
0 - 19 ABY -> The Galactic Civil War
30 - 34 ABY -> The Yuuzhan Vong invasion
40 - 41 ABY -> Second Galactic Civil War
~130 ABY -> Sith-Imperial War
Unless we want a Star Wars: Rebellion styled chaos, we just need to choose a certain timeline - or exploit one of the gaps between them. Without naval combat we can't even think about depicting any of the Galactic Civil Wars (and as much as I try to be an optimist, I doubt PI will ever include naval combat in CK2). Personally, I uphold my earlier proposal of using the time gap between Darth Bane (~1000 BBY) and the prequels. Even then we'd need to create some fixed personalities - like the members of the Jedi Council, the Chancellor, some more important planetary governors and so on.
BTW, I just had a realisation... How are we supposed to recreate the Republic with CK2 mechanics? Republics are unplayable - wouldn't be a big problem, since the Chancellor doesn't quite need to be a playable character - but if we make other planets "vassals" to the Chancellor, wouldn't them count as republics as well?
~4000 - 3800 BBY -> Knights of the Old Republic and The Old Republic
40 - 19 BBY -> Prequels
0 - 19 ABY -> The Galactic Civil War
30 - 34 ABY -> The Yuuzhan Vong invasion
40 - 41 ABY -> Second Galactic Civil War
~130 ABY -> Sith-Imperial War
Unless we want a Star Wars: Rebellion styled chaos, we just need to choose a certain timeline - or exploit one of the gaps between them. Without naval combat we can't even think about depicting any of the Galactic Civil Wars (and as much as I try to be an optimist, I doubt PI will ever include naval combat in CK2). Personally, I uphold my earlier proposal of using the time gap between Darth Bane (~1000 BBY) and the prequels. Even then we'd need to create some fixed personalities - like the members of the Jedi Council, the Chancellor, some more important planetary governors and so on.
BTW, I just had a realisation... How are we supposed to recreate the Republic with CK2 mechanics? Republics are unplayable - wouldn't be a big problem, since the Chancellor doesn't quite need to be a playable character - but if we make other planets "vassals" to the Chancellor, wouldn't them count as republics as well?
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Jedrek said:
This is why I suggested Victoria 2. Do you have EU3 Complete, perhaps?
EDIT: Truthfully, Darkest Hour would be the best route to take with something like this. It's designed to handle total war and has a great and (to my understanding) simple to mod event system. Varying unit types are no issue whatsoever, nor is naval combat. We could take a period, say, the Jedi Civil War, and use event chains to shoot it in canonical or alternate history directions. The actual battles are in a realistic, modern fashion with modern ethos that would MUCH better reflect Star Wars.
As far as you not affording it, I'm more than willing to talk to you in private about purchasing it for you.
EDIT2: Of course, I could have checked your icons to see and affirm that you have Darkest Hour. Cough. >_>
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