Standardized Sherman 75mm

[sexualspaghetti]

Ive noticed germany and france both have 5 accuracy 11 ap shermans at 130 points, france with some serious vet to boot. im just curious as to why german and french shermans are so much more accurate and have more penetration then the american and scottish shermans of the same price range? correct me if im wrong but isnt this the same gun? given its all in the same time frame and shouldnt they be shooting the same ammo? shouldnt their gun stats be the same? i understand the french and german shermans seem to have the new a3 type hull so i understand the increased armor and increased speed but no so much the gun.

come phase c these 4 accuracy tanks are beyond useless, something like the m4a1 rhino even at 140 points, with only 4 acc, 10 ap, barely chugging along at 18kmh and has NO vet is an absolute abomination.. its completely unusable which is a shame because their so sexy. (in my experience 4 vs 5 accuracy is night and day in combat)

With things like the now 6 accuracy on pz4s and stugs would giving 5 accuracy and 11 ap to all m3 75mm armed shermans (not just the french and german ones) be somehow op or gamebreaking? or should they all drop to 4 accuracy 10 ap?

 

[Max_Damage]

No no no pls. Leave 4 acc shermans where they are. Good for fun and flavor. They are fire support tanks anyway. Otherwise they can counter enemy halftracks, 222 and light tanks. But with double stars you can just sit it behind cover and use it as an antitank for anything that goes by because the accuracy gets a nice bonus. And im saying this while i play 2nd inf most of the time. They only get 4 acc tanks. This is really a nice design and im enjoying it.

 

[Karlburg]

Giving the higher end shermans to armored divisions and the lower end shermans to infantry divisions is cool design, except for the fact that the high end ones cost a lot more and end up on the wrong side of the price-value curve for the armored divisions, resulting in 2ID getting more sherman 75s, and no one else.

 

[Commiekiller757]

I'm certainly with you on this one, It would change very little gameplay-wise to bump up the "early" Shermans to be using the modern ammunition and sights. The M4A1s die to damn near every capable tank they might face and simply buffing the acc and AP by one each will let them do their infantry support role somewhat better.

 

[GeneralOconnor]

... im just curious as to why german and french shermans are so much more accurate and have more penetration then the american and scottish shermans of the same price range? correct me if im wrong but isnt this the same gun? ....

One minor thing is the Scots Shermans probably has a different 75mm which was a rebore of the 6lber. Fired I think the same ammo but not a great performance, it was a stop gap to get a HE round in tanks, but I think it had an underperforming AP round.

Not arguing with a buff to scots tho, lot of the time you have to shrug your shoulders at enemy armour. ATG's are shredded by mass rocketry and long range arty.

Edit:

Meh, brain fart, the 75mm on the sherman is almost certainly the same, it will be on the Churchills that the rebore is mounted, my bad.

 

[Karlburg]

The Scots Shermans might almost be worth taking if they were available in phase B.

120 points is just about that point where the .50 and HE chucking gun might be worth it.

I think i'd rather see divisions pay similar costs for their Sherman 75s and just have different models/availability be the distinction. An armored division should not be getting a worse deal on their basic medium tank.

 

[sexualspaghetti]

Giving the higher end shermans to armored divisions and the lower end shermans to infantry divisions is cool design, except for the fact that the high end ones cost a lot more and end up on the wrong side of the price-value curve for the armored divisions, resulting in 2ID getting more sherman 75s, and no one else.

I think the fact that they are slower, no vet, and have 2 less front armor value alone says they are already using 2nd class Shermans. But the fact remains it's the same gun same ammo. It should be the same performance. German tank guns ap and acc arent lowered just because it's not in an armored division. American shermans shouldn't be unfairly and arbitrarily punished. American decks especially are ap starved as it is. And 11 ap as opposed to 10 is not a game changer by any means.

 

[Karlburg]

I think the fact that they are slower, no vet, and have 2 less front armor value alone says they are already using 2nd class Shermans. But the fact remains it's the same gun same ammo. It should be the same performance. German tank guns ap and acc arent lowered just because it's not in an armored division. American shermans shouldn't be unfairly and arbitrarily punished. American decks especially are ap starved as it is. And 11 ap as opposed to 10 is not a game changer by any means.

I'm okay with that as long as the price remains unchanged, but if you upped the price the vehicle would be less viable because the extra AP doesn't really do a lot for what the 2id sherman does in 2id.

 

[sexualspaghetti]

I'm okay with that as long as the price remains unchanged, but if you upped the price the vehicle would be less viable because the extra AP doesn't really do a lot for what the 2id sherman does in 2id.

Honestly it's more about the accuracy 10 ap is enough to pen most medium tanks (although not reliably), but 4 accuracy is just a sin especially with no vet. Most tanks between 120 - 150 are all at 6 now. It's not like the Sherman was notoriously inaccurate or anything.

In game it's just anemic and painful. You can micro your life away trying to get a flank shot only to have the first 3 shots miss.

 

[Makko]

I just hate the state of the US Armored ones, they're so expensive and terrible for what you get. Maybe in a 60 minute game sheer numbers would be useful but instead of being a cost effective fire support unit like the stuart it's just an expensive point waste.

 

[IronHat]

One minor thing is the Scots Shermans probably has a different 75mm which was a rebore of the 6lber. Fired I think the same ammo but not a great performance, it was a stop gap to get a HE round in tanks, but I think it had an underperforming AP round.

Not arguing with a buff to scots tho, lot of the time you have to shrug your shoulders at enemy armour. ATG's are shredded by mass rocketry and long range arty.

Edit:

Meh, brain fart, the 75mm on the sherman is almost certainly the same, it will be on the Churchills that the rebore is mounted, my bad.

the 75mm mkv was only used on the British made tank like the Churchill and cromwell. it was solely designed and used so british made tank can have an effective HE round. It doesn't make sense to convert the m3 75mm armed sherman to use the 75mm mk 5 as it doesn't offer any performance upgrade.

 

[sexualspaghetti]

One bump for justice! Between the 6 accuracy pz4/stug and things like the windhund and their 5 acc upvetted tanks phase a tanks, all the other 5 acc Shermans added it's time to bring the others into line. The 2nd ID and 101st are stuck with only 4 accuracy Shermans. most with no vet. 4 accuracy with lose evey time in a tank duel. I get they aren't supposed to be wrecking tanks but ATM they are getting absolutely bopped everytime by like priced units.

Please give the m4a1, m4a1 DD, and the rhino 5 accuracy and 11 ap. It's by no means op, it just might make them useful and its realistic. All the other Shermans with 5 accuracy and 11 ap are using the same gun and ammo.

 

[Miskyavine]

One bump for justice! Between the 6 accuracy pz4/stug and things like the windhund and their 5 acc upvetted tanks phase a tanks, all the other 5 acc Shermans added it's time to bring the others into line. The 2nd ID and 101st are stuck with only 4 accuracy Shermans. most with no vet. 4 accuracy with lose evey time in a tank duel. I get they aren't supposed to be wrecking tanks but ATM they are getting absolutely bopped everytime by like priced units.

Please give the m4a1, m4a1 DD, and the rhino 5 accuracy and 11 ap. It's by no means op, it just might make them useful and its realistic. All the other Shermans with 5 accuracy and 11 ap are using the same gun and ammo.

Agreed if the PZ4G and PZ4Hget the same gun no reason the Shermans who used the same gun and ammo should be differant.

 

[sexualspaghetti]

The thing is I cannot think of one reason why not... Be it Historical or in terms of game play... Would it be unbalanced?