Standard duchies and kingdoms borders bugfix discussion

[unmerged(2456)]

Well...i don't know. Yes the land was known as Andalusia, but Andalusia technically refered to all parts, but i guess so. Either way Solmyr if i can get the graphics for either Codoba or Andalusia would use mind using one of the U### for the kingdom?

Anyway the folloing should be changed for dutchies:

Andalusia/Cordoba should contain the folloing dutchies:
Almeria
Badajoz
Cordoba Aracena -> Sevilla
Mercina This should bcome Grananda and move Murcia county to Almeria
Sevilla
Toledo Soria -> Zaragoza or Navarra
Valancia Almasa -> Cordoba

Yes its a lot, but Andalusia is essentially southern spain and this encompasses all of the original states that formed Andulusia.

 

[Solmyr]

If it's one big kingdom in the south it should be Andalusia. If it's Cordoba, then there should also be kingdoms of Valencia, the Algarves, and Mallorca, at least.

Anyway, we could use one of the predefined tags that is not used in any scenario for Andalusia. At least that way if people don't want to install new graphics, they'll have something showing instead of a black hole.

 

[Brownbeard]

what? only 1..2..3..4..5 kingdoms consisting kingdom of spain? way too few. how bout rez-erecting the kingdom of asturias?

 

[Solmyr]

Asturias was basically the earlier name of Leon (before it moved south).

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Andalusia is best choise. After the moorish invasions very little of pre-islam spain was left there.

If we went with smaller kingdoms then we'd have to have:
Cordoba
Valencia
Algarves
Mallorca
Sevilla
Granada

And maybe Toledo, but it could be part of Cordoba.

Its up to you guys what you prefer. Andalusia for the previous setup is fine with me, partly because i need only get new graphics for Granada duchy and Andalusia kingdom I admit, but also is there really a reason for there to be so many kingdoms?

 

[Solmyr]

There's a tag for Granada which could be used as a claimable kingdom in southern Spain to portray Andalusia (though we can't rename it as it is used in the 1337 scenario).

 

[Brownbeard]

Andalusia... Granada... both is fine, as long as the rain in spain stay mainly in the plain... use the granada tag, thus you will turn one more 0 tag nation into a normal one, and this will result in less bugs and exploits. 0 tag titles are evil, and if it were up to me, they would not exist at all.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Granada imo isn't a good choice if we're going for what it should be. I mean would you rename Kingdom of Castile to the Kingdom of Sevilla. If we're going with tons of small kingdoms that's fine, but otherwise Granada should be a dutchy.

 

[Tunch Khan]

The moslem possessions in Spain was called Andalusia by moslems in the East.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

You could merge northern Castilla and Leon into one kingdom and make the other of those into a kingdom in southern Spain? That would give a new kingdom without adding to the already damn high amount of kingdoms in Iberia. Also there is some reasoning to unify Castilla and Leon as they were afaik united kingdom earlier and somewhat later too.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Byakhiam:
actually there aren't a "damn high amount f kingdoms in Iberia." For the relative size it might have more than Russia or Germany, but not British Isles which has 4 kingdoms on 1/2 the amount of land and provinces. Here we'd only be talking about 6. Middle East has about as many as well.

Your proposal isn't good either. If anything in a way its worse than the Granada one because atleast that one didn't take away a legitimate automoumous kingdom. None of them have claim to south Iberia except that its to drive out the infiedels. If Leon could do it they'd have as much right as Navarra would. Even England could be justified here if they wished to spend the forces.

Trunch Khan:
As to the name Andalusia I am aware of that, However we need an appropiriate name. Andalusia works for this reason. Granada doesn't because Codoba would in this era overshadows it in prestige and power until the final scenerio even for non-muslims. But as mentioned before having Cordoba as 1 kingdom could leave holes open to allow for other kingdoms to be justifiably put in.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I guess Kingdom of Al-Andalus might be a better term than Andalusia

But Al-Andalus included all of Portugal, most of Castile and Aragon and Leon as a vassal.

 

[Solmyr]

Since this would be a kingdom claimable by Christians, naming it Andalusia is better than Al-Andalus.
Anyhow, I'll look into available tags and see what we have that could be used. I can't use Granada anyway since I'm taking it into use as a starting emirate in 1066.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well, I am not fully aware in the divisions made by bugfix, but at least in vanilla Iberia has most kingdoms per provinces of all regions. There are about 50 provinces in Iberia and five kingdoms in that area. British Isles have only four kingdoms with slighthly higher amount of provinces. Mid East has few small kingdoms (Arabia, Basra), but still it would be quite large land area to get the amount to five kingdoms. (Aleppo, Syria, Mesopotamia, Arabia, Basra) and none of them is iirc smaller than for example Bohemia.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Trunch Khan:
As to the name Andalusia I am aware of that, However we need an appropiriate name. Andalusia works for this reason. Granada doesn't because Codoba would in this era overshadows it in prestige and power until the final scenerio even for non-muslims. But as mentioned before having Cordoba as 1 kingdom could leave holes open to allow for other kingdoms to be justifiably put in.

I was actually happy with the selection of Andalusia, but now that you brought up al-Andalus, even better. Sultanate of al-Andalus eh, sounds good to me.

PS. What is the latest situation on Aleppo regarding my previous Palmyria question?

 

[Brownbeard]

so.. let's get a few things straight:

this new iberian kingdom would include duchies of: seville, almeria, cordoba and maybe toledo

i still do not understand why it would not make sense for some crusader king to name his new kingdom in iberia as kingdom of granada containing these. it is not a historical title anyway. pretty much as kingdoms of africa, mauretania, basra, or transoxiana.

the advantage of granada would be the utilization of an already existing tags

and speaking of kingdoms: croatia should consist of three kingdoms then as well, kingdoms of croatia, slavonia and dalmatia, since all three had been political entities equivalent to castille, leon and aragon in iberia. but they became united into croatia, much like the other three became kingdom of spain...

seriously: what's with the duke of hum and king of bosnia tags? there's currently a functional vacuum on the balkans because these two lack

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Really, two-three province kingdoms suck. The smallest kingdoms should be at least 9-10 provinces in claimable area. This from purely gameplay point of view.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

so.. let's get a few things straight:

this new iberian kingdom would include duchies of: seville, almeria, cordoba and maybe toledo

Andalusia should contain the folloing dutchies:
Almeria
Badajoz
Cordoba Aracena -> Sevilla
Mercina This should bcome Grananda and move Murcia county to Almeria
Sevilla
Toledo Soria -> Zaragoza or Navarra
Valancia Almasa -> Cordoba

It should also contain the portugese provinces as well, but i think that's good enough.

 

[Solmyr]

Well, we can't use the Granada tag, since I'm forcing it to be a duchy-tier title in the 1066 scenario. So some other tag will have to be found. I agree though that it's not entirely necessary for there to be another kingdom in Iberia. Maybe if Paradox decides to add some new tags in a later patch then we can rethink it (I'm still hoping for a kingdom of Armenia tag).

 

[Solmyr]

Incidentally, how about making a kingdom of Suomi (SOUM tag) a claimable one? Currently there is no kingdom in Finland. Karelia could go into it as well, since it's no longer under RUSS.