Hmm, I wouldn't start using auto promote. The AI's judgement is usually sadly lacking.
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DesertSnow said:
Well, the thing about the GDE is that usually the Soviet army starts the campaign at .6 (1940) or point .7 (1941) and this increases rapidly based on how much territory the SU has lost. Having reduced GDE simulates fairly well the confusion and bad management of the army in the opening phase of the campaign. It's similar in effect to the PH event that gives added values to Japan at the begining of the Pacific War.
Again, I agree about the purge event. It could be more interesting.
Good suggestions. Right now, as everyone says, the purge event is obvious. Tying the purge to GDE, even lightly, would be quite balancing though. If all of GDE was based on the purge, then it may become obvious to never purge. So, perhaps only a positive modifier to GDE, even with some still lacking.
The GDE penality, right or not, is very important in game play. Without it, Germany can't stand a chance against the USSR.
The GDE penality, right or not, is very important in game play. Without it, Germany can't stand a chance against the USSR.
Well, lets remember a couple of things about the GDE modifier and how it came into being. Theoretically speaking, if the only issue was the start of Barbarossa then it would make sense to give SU a GDE malus at the start of the campaign, going for a couple of weeks or a month, after Germany attacks.
But this is not the only issue. A Soviet player has many opportunities to effectively use his massive army to effect before 1941 however, and in SP, these include a pre-emptive strike into Romania. They also can attack Persia, though this has a hidden effect of making Portugal and Nationalist Spain less neutral and easier for the Germans to ally.
So, the low GDE was used as a balance to give these minor powers half a chance should SU pursue an agressive a-historical approach. At least this is the way I saw it.
But this is not the only issue. A Soviet player has many opportunities to effectively use his massive army to effect before 1941 however, and in SP, these include a pre-emptive strike into Romania. They also can attack Persia, though this has a hidden effect of making Portugal and Nationalist Spain less neutral and easier for the Germans to ally.
So, the low GDE was used as a balance to give these minor powers half a chance should SU pursue an agressive a-historical approach. At least this is the way I saw it.
I think that giving to USSR more GDE in the early game will completly destroy the game balance : now it is one of 3 "WC-without too much efforts" countries but with full GDE from the start... the other AI-controlled countries will be doomed.DesertSnow said:
Cueball said:
I'm not so sure. It has been ages since I've done that kind of thing, but I'd be willing to bet that if you DOW Eastern Europe and Germany before July, 1936, you'll annex them all before December, 1937.
In other words, you just don't need GDE when you are the aggressor, and frankly, any time they do push you back, you'll regain org the whole way, and when you land on your feet again, just tag them right back.
Well, I don't think it works to be frank, but it seems to me that is some of what it was meant to do, noting of course the big GDE bonus up to .8 is triggered whenever SU is at war with a major, and not just when it is at war.
So what's the problem of linking the gde penalty to a realtive event, as i have, instead of beginning the campaign with it?
It can again be balanced:
1. You don't purge the officers: great dissent, but no gde penalty.
Great dissent---> limited IC for pre-war build-up
2. Purge the officers: no dissent problem, but you get the gde penalty.
In my modded games, i also have an event giving SU a bonus in supply production (with the 5-year plans in mind), which is necessary if the soviet player wishes to keep ALL his initial troops (in my mod i use 1 IC --> 1 supply, so it takes 4 times more IC than in Vanilla for all countries to maintain their armies). If the player chooses to avoid the purges, Stalin dies and the "bonus" is recalled.
It can again be balanced:
1. You don't purge the officers: great dissent, but no gde penalty.
Great dissent---> limited IC for pre-war build-up
2. Purge the officers: no dissent problem, but you get the gde penalty.
In my modded games, i also have an event giving SU a bonus in supply production (with the 5-year plans in mind), which is necessary if the soviet player wishes to keep ALL his initial troops (in my mod i use 1 IC --> 1 supply, so it takes 4 times more IC than in Vanilla for all countries to maintain their armies). If the player chooses to avoid the purges, Stalin dies and the "bonus" is recalled.
I don't have a problem with it. In fact manipulating the GDE is one of the things that crosses my mind about the purge event, once and a while. Its a good idea. Just not the route I took. Its one of the great things about this game, that it can be modded to reflect different historical views. Just discussing the relative issue of it. And talking about why I decided to do it differently.
Bottom line for me is that it is really hard to prove that had the purge not happened, that the situation would have been much different. Note here that it is Zhukov and Vassilevsky, two Soviet generals who are generally well respected as superior commanders in the Red Army who are begging Stalin to take a more assertive and proactive policy in regards to the preperations for the front, in the run up to the war, and this makes absolutely no difference to the policy. Niether were suprised by the invasion, nor were they inferior officers, Stalin simply overode their view.
There is nothing to indicate the Tukhachevsky would have faired any better in convincing Stalin had he been in their shoes.
I will note that the obvious solution to the increased supply cost issue is simply deleting your starting army, so that it costs nothing, and build fresh starting in 1939. What I did was give SU a "peacetime_IC_mod" to put a limit on IC whoring.
Bottom line for me is that it is really hard to prove that had the purge not happened, that the situation would have been much different. Note here that it is Zhukov and Vassilevsky, two Soviet generals who are generally well respected as superior commanders in the Red Army who are begging Stalin to take a more assertive and proactive policy in regards to the preperations for the front, in the run up to the war, and this makes absolutely no difference to the policy. Niether were suprised by the invasion, nor were they inferior officers, Stalin simply overode their view.
There is nothing to indicate the Tukhachevsky would have faired any better in convincing Stalin had he been in their shoes.
I will note that the obvious solution to the increased supply cost issue is simply deleting your starting army, so that it costs nothing, and build fresh starting in 1939. What I did was give SU a "peacetime_IC_mod" to put a limit on IC whoring.
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which is a good one, since soviets were not preparing for the war and their prewar industry had other things to do. the best solution would be low starting IC combined with events indicating finishing of some mamoth projects which would give you more IC, but with just a little iimagination peace time penalty works the same. but is it lifted by the Winter war? i gues it shouldn't. just bit lowering it.Cueball said:
Contrary to popular belief - purges did't much effect on the Red Army perfomance in summer of 1941. During the purges:
9506 officers were arrested. 1431 of them were freed later and regained their rank in 38-40)
18822 officers were dissmissed from the Army by political reasons. And 9121 of them were restored in their position and rank during 38-40.
So, during the Purges only 8072 officers were arrested, prisoned or shot and 9701 were dissmissed from the ranks.
This is very small number in fact. In june 1941 Red Army have 439143 officers total.
Some other facts:
Before Purges only 28% of the soviet officers had military education. After Purges - 38%. By june of 1941 - 52%.
9506 officers were arrested. 1431 of them were freed later and regained their rank in 38-40)
18822 officers were dissmissed from the Army by political reasons. And 9121 of them were restored in their position and rank during 38-40.
So, during the Purges only 8072 officers were arrested, prisoned or shot and 9701 were dissmissed from the ranks.
This is very small number in fact. In june 1941 Red Army have 439143 officers total.
Some other facts:
Before Purges only 28% of the soviet officers had military education. After Purges - 38%. By june of 1941 - 52%.
The SOVIET AI does not have this low of a GDE. The AI GDE is either 0.8 or soon jumps to 0.8 when it is attacked. Barbarossa being a cakewalk has nothing to do with the SOVIET AI's GDE.
If you want something more historical for SOV, then a surprise event should be in the game for SOV if Germany attacks it in 1940 or 1941. There already is a surprise event for JAP against USA. The game would have to be rebalanced if the AI is hit with a surprise event, but it might give the human SOV player some difficulty in single play games.
john heidle said:
I like how HSR approaches this. With purges USSR gets org penalty which is then slowly removed with either time passing or by Germans advancing far enough to force Stalin to allow more leeway to the generals.