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Jadelith

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well, how do you make them? : )

they don't have bishoprics so you can't make those. giving family members land is always a no-no for me so that's also out (much prefer dealing with decadence through other ways).

any tricks you know of?
 

Dartheal

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Imprison your son's grandchildren (if they're not your heir) and when your son succeeds, imprison your brothers. So long as you can cycle 1-2 duchies by giving the counties to your son when they become of age, you should theoretically be able to keep it stable. Also observe Ramadan and go to war as often as you can to help lower it.
 

Jia Xu

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Giving land to family members is a great idea, you just have to be smart about it. Instead of killing/incarcerating all of your ambitious brothers, you could just give them counties and put them under a duke who is loyal to you and doesn't have any claims. Now they're indirect vassals, and they're not a bother to anyone except that duke. Eventually your dynasty will be mostly made up of people who don't have claims on your primary title and then you can start relying on your kin to take on higher responsibilities. If something annoying happens like a faction trying to replace you with another dynast decides goes into rebellion, that's okay, the claimant can be beaten in a couple of minutes because he only has a county. :p
 
Last edited:

isall

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Limit you own personal demesne. The smaller your own demesne the smaller the decadence penalties are for unlanded family. With only a single holding yourself (somewhere like Cairo, or Palermo), you can feasibly be handing out titles to family members left and right while maintaining a manageable decadence. This does require near constant expansion, however.

edit: Jia Xu beat me too it.
 

Sopot

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The way I do it is to never allow any of my children to marry or have land, other than giving land/wives to my preferred hier if is not automatically 1st in line. If any of my children are causing decadence, then I put them on my council and they should stop gaining decadence.

Any other males of my dynasty should be unmarried and in jail.

If I have to give away land then I give it to random courtiers of my culture/religion, with the new retenue system, your court should be full of randoms with fairly decent stats.

Obviously, this is a dangerous way to play as you sometimes have only 2 males of your dynasty alive and a disaster could end your game quickly, however, it also seems the safest way to stop decadence or succession crisis.
 

Jephery

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well, how do you make them? : )

they don't have bishoprics so you can't make those. giving family members land is always a no-no for me so that's also out (much prefer dealing with decadence through other ways).

any tricks you know of?

Mayors are as good a bishoprics for Muslims, because of the Hajajj + Piety relations bonus.
 

Jadelith

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Mayors are as good a bishoprics for Muslims, because of the Hajajj + Piety relations bonus.

well, this is what I was looking for. prestige + piety + hajajj bonus more than negates the -30 penalty, so they are not like christian mayors. its quite easy to get those bonuses, so mayors are the way to go for me.

I just don't give any land to any feudal lords as a house rule : ) not because it's gamey, of course, but because it makes it too difficult for me.
 

MasterOfGrey

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Muslim fuedal lords aren't going to blob into super-dukes though because of the restrictive marriage laws. I tend to just make sure every county is owned by a different dynasty of muslim lord, and then in each place I make the most powerful count in a duchy a duke. These dukes don't have a lot of personal power but the titles and kingdom structure are all pretty safe. I then like to keep 2 or 3 of my sons married and on my council (educated so they're worth putting there) and at each new generation I imprison/execute those that are floating around and unnecessary. It doesn't matter if you fail cause if they flee to foreign courts they stop producing you decadence but can still net you various bonuses by event. (I once gained 100 prestige cause my cousin won a grand tournament over in Persia while I was the Emperor of Hispania.)
 

Casiru

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If you have your brothers as vassals you only have to fight one succession war and they will lose their claim, Muslims get large opinion bonus's so the half brother or whatever tends not to matter. Is fighting ~10 increasingly minor wars to maintain your realm really such a big deal?
 

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I don't think you can banish them but it really doesn't matter, in prison they're not producing decadence, and if you want them gone so you don't have to worry about releasing them in Ramadam then just hire a really poor spymaster before you imprison them - odds are they'll escape and flee the country.
 

Shadowhope

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Keep your sons at court. Don't marry them off to anyone. Don't give them land. Just keep pumping out children of your own. If you're getting on in years (45+, older if you can help it), give a single safe county or barony or mosque to your best child. When you die and start in on your son, kill all your brothers, go on Hajj, etc. Use Mayors as vassals whenever possible.
 

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You should be able to imprison anyone in your family except for your children without penalty if I remember correctly.

That's correct. You can imprison any male of your dynasty, with the exception of your current ruler's sons, without penalty. As for your sons... well, that's the point: if you could just imprison everyone, there would be zero purpose to the mechanic. Instead, throw them on your council, give them land, eat the tyranny penalty, or eat the decadence gain. If you're lucky, maybe you'll catch them plotting and can imprison them.

But you can also work to mitigate that decadence rolling in: observe Ramadan every chance you get, keep your personal demesne low, and when you're at war make sure you've got family members leading troops (in the flanks/center, not just randomly on the field), and that they're in charge of sieges. If you're really lucky, the less useful ones will get promptly killed by some self-righteous Crusader jerk.



As your empire starts to sprawl a bit, decadence will grow quicker and if you're not gaming it by ignoring the prestige penalty and have four wives, you'll have tons of extra sons. Should you ever find yourself in a position that you have a long-lived Sultan and he's still popping out sons that are reaching adulthood, and you've got too many to effectively fit on your council... then give as much land as you can to the one you want to be your heir, and then give enough land to keep their decadence only trickling in to your shittiest sons. Should you be strong-armed into landing more than one son, then it'd be wise to insure that the other landed sons stand as little chance as possible at ever gaining any support for the throne.
 

Comradebot

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Keep your sons at court. Don't marry them off to anyone. Don't give them land. Just keep pumping out children of your own. If you're getting on in years (45+, older if you can help it), give a single safe county or barony or mosque to your best child. When you die and start in on your son, kill all your brothers, go on Hajj, etc. Use Mayors as vassals whenever possible.

In my experience, this only will work if you can fit all your sons on the council (and preferably without crippling yourself by putting super-crappy sons on the council... nothin' like going "Well, Kharmander needs a spot on the council... guess he'll be an okay Chancellor with his four diplomacy...".)

But ideally, you won't end up with a billion sons and the ones you do have will all be educated to be awesome at a specific council position. Of course, that often means giving them to the AI to mentor... I've had more than one kid who I planned to be his brother's Steward end up an Indulgent Wastrel with five stewardship. Come succession, those guys go immediately into the dungeon and then get shipped off to bum-frak Mali to never be heard from again. Guess with the faction system I'll now have to actually start killing my family instead of banishing... bleh.