Stability Damage

[Draconislupus]

Anyone else notice that stability damage doesn't seem to calculate correctly?

My lance is designed to knock mechs on their butts. I have 3 Crabs each with 2 LRM 15s and an LRM 20. All of which have bonus stability damage, most of them +2. So I'm doing around 320 stability damage per Crab. I hit a mech that has just fired and in the open with a 95% hit chance I should be doing around 240 points of stability damage, if they have bulwark to drop it 20%. And yet the best that I get is 4 bars of stability damage registered. And if let's say I use just the LRM 20 from each with precision shot I should be doing close to 80 per mech for a total of 240 and when I do that I only get 3 bars. Plus when I hit an opponent with 40% resistance with 2 of them, around 380 points of stability damage they still don't fall. Even though the stability bar is full and flashing.

I also heard that each stability bar is supposed to be 20 points. Is this not the case?

 

[mjbroekman]

The stability bar is "whatever the maximum stability of the mech is". That varies by weight class. Lights have 100 stability, Mediums have 130, Heavies have 160, and Assaults have 200.

You can't take a mech from "stable" (no triangular warning sign) to knocked down in a single attack... no matter how much stability damage you do. At best, it will go from stable to unstable.

Bulwark has nothing to do with stability. Bulwark used to grant Entrenched which gives 50% stability damage reduction. It no longer does. Entrenched is granted by Sure Footed (Pilot5 ability) now. Guarded (Brace / Vigilence) still grants Entrenched. Sure Footed grants Entrenched after any regular move (not sprint, jump, or melee). Mud (a terrain feature) also reduces stability damage by 50%. So that 320 stability damage per King Crab will be knocked down to 160 by any opfor Pilot that has the Pilot5 ability. On an Assault mech, 160 translates to 4 bars.

 

[Draconislupus]

So does Precision Shot then take away the Guarded reduction since it ignores Guarded?

 

[Draconislupus]

Also thanks for the break down. That helps a ton.

 

[Draconislupus]

It also sounds like they need to not have the flashing circle around the triangle before a knockdown is scored. Because it looks like I'm hitting for like 190 points when I hit with 2. This makes the bar look completely full and flashing but not score a knockdown.

 

[Draconislupus]

It also makes me have to rethink my design. I want to change 1 of the LRM 15s out to an LRM 20 to give me 220 stability damage per mech. But as they sit they have jump jets, produce negative heat in normal and colder maps, and have about 80% of max armor. All this plus 10 tons of ammo. I kind of hate to give that up but I'll have to rework them.

 

[mjbroekman]

So does Precision Shot then take away the Guarded reduction since it ignores Guarded?

Precision Shot (Resolve Ability) doesn't take away Guarded. Breaching Shot (Gunnery 8) ignores Cover (and maybe Guarded?).

It also sounds like they need to not have the flashing circle around the triangle before a knockdown is scored. Because it looks like I'm hitting for like 190 points when I hit with 2. This makes the bar look completely full and flashing but not score a knockdown.

If you hit an unstable mech (has a triangular warning icon) and bring it all the way to the full fifth stability bar, it should score a knockdown. The problem is that you might have only brought it to 199/200 instead. It'll LOOK like you filled it, but didn't.

 

[Draconislupus]

Sorry I meant Breaching Shot and it says ignores Cover and Guarded.

And that is what I think is happening. That is why I think they need to not have the faint flashing circle around the Unstable icon until the Knockdown is scored. Because as it is it looks like it is full but there is no way to know until the animation is done. But I guess in combat you wouldn't know right away. Just frustrating at times.

But now that I know the numbers I can figure out how to make sure it is enough.

Thanks for the info by the way.

 

[Draconislupus]

I just had proof that it doesn't calculate correctly all the time. I had an opfor Awesome with an Elite Skirmisher that had 4 full stability bars, cover, and 20% damage reduction get alpha struck by 1 of my Crabs (50 LRMs with 95% hit chance and +2 stability damage per missile) and it still did not drop him. Filled the bar but no knockdown. So out of 200 stability points at a 95% hit chance less that 40 hit? No way.

 

[Amechwarrior]

I just had proof that it doesn't calculate correctly all the time. I had an opfor Awesome with an Elite Skirmisher that had 4 full stability bars, cover, and 20% damage reduction get alpha struck by 1 of my Crabs (50 LRMs with 95% hit chance and +2 stability damage per missile) and it still did not drop him. Filled the bar but no knockdown. So out of 200 stability points at a 95% hit chance less that 40 hit? No way.

Was it "Unsteady" before that hit? You could never KD a unit via stability bar if they weren't first Unsteady. It could have been a pilot with Sure Footing and the passive "Unsteady" increases from high piloting.

Sure Footing cuts incoming stability dmg by 50%, DMG reduction is meaningless here.

 

[Draconislupus]

To be honest I don't know if he was unsteady or not.

But even at 50% reduction, 50% of 200 is 100 and he only had 40 left. So I would have done 2.5 times the stability damage needed.

 

[Amechwarrior]

To be honest I don't know if he was unsteady or not.

But even at 50% reduction, 50% of 200 is 100 and he only had 40 left. So I would have done 2.5 times the stability damage needed.

If he wasn't unsteady first, it's all "stability overkill" and doesn't matter, it's not going to fall over unless it's been made unsteady in a previous attack, or you just cut a whole leg off. If you wanted to maximize your ammo, do the math on what it should take to hit that unit's "Unsteady" Mark +10% and then about how much the next unit needs to fill the remaining bar. This will be modified by the 'Mechs weight class and if the pilot has Sure Footing active in that phase. Sure Footing only triggers on walking, but that's usually what the AI is doing anyway.

The giant arrow is that mark where they go from stable to unsteady, this can go as high as the 80% full mark and this is something Piloting specialists can reach at the higher skull levels. The red circle is the "Unsteady" alert marker, this is the surefire way to check if a unit is unsteady or not, it isn't there otherwise.

In this case, each 20% is 26 Stability for 130 total for a Medium, the pilot does not have Sure Footing. It's at around 50-60% so if you can throw about another 60 Stability DMG at it, it should fall over. If this pilot was an Elite Outrider, with piloting 10, the TBT would not be unsteady, you would need to breach the 80% mark first, then deal another 20% or remaining to KD it.

 

[mjbroekman]

Thanks @Amechwarrior for the example.

Some more examples:
Dekker, in his Wolverine, needs to be OVER 3 stability bars in order to be Unstable. That means that no matter how much stability damage he takes from his next attack, he won't get knocked down. If the next attack deals 200 stability damage to him, he still won't get knocked down because he's NOT unstable right now. It would take a SECOND attack to do at least 1 stability damage afterwards for him to be knocked down.

This Panther is ALMOST at two full bars. The next attack will NEVER knock it down through stability damage alone.

This Wolverine was just hammered by a DFA attack. His stability bar is COMPLETELY full. But he WASN'T unstable before the attack. He will NOT get knocked down by the DFA (unless it destroys a leg). He WILL be unstable after this animation concludes and ANY stability damage before the Wolverine moves again WILL knock it down.

This Quickdraw was already missing a leg (the red stability bar) AND they were already unstable (warning triangle). They are about to fall over from the attack that just hit them.

 

[The Shadowhawke]

Stability remains weird in the game. I've had situations where I've smacked targets with big LRM salvos, and a combination of cover and terrain knocks missiles down to 1 or 2 points a hit; no serious armor loss...YET, they are down on the ground from the stability.

I've pounded some heavy and assault mechs, and they've tenaciously stayed upright. Others... I've dropped them surprisingly fast.

I think opfor pilot skills are definitely factoring in.

 

[Draconislupus]

I recently hit a light mech with 145 LRMs from 3 mechs and it didn't go down. And then the next round I hit a medium mech with the same amount and it dropped. So still not 100% sure it calculates correctly all the time.

 

[Jade_Rook]

I recently hit a light mech with 145 LRMs from 3 mechs and it didn't go down. And then the next round I hit a medium mech with the same amount and it dropped. So still not 100% sure it calculates correctly all the time.

With standard LRMs, you are dealing 2 stability damage per missile. I assume the light mech was Entrenched, either having the Sure Footed special ability or from Bracing. That cuts all stability damage in half. I am also assuming that not all of the missiles hit. I am guessing the pilot had the first stability increase from piloting, so it would have taken 60 stability damage to knock them unsteady. With Entrenched, they could take 60 LRMs without becoming unsteady. Then the next attacker hits with more LRMs, filling up the Stability gauge and applying the Unsteady condition, but unable to knock them over. Then it just takes a tap from the last attacker to actually knock them down. Depending on accuracy, this is not outside the realm of possibility, even with 145 LRMs.

It is also possible that the target was both Entrenched and in terrain which reduces stability damage.

 

[Confector Tyrannis]

I recently hit a light mech with 145 LRMs from 3 mechs and it didn't go down. And then the next round I hit a medium mech with the same amount and it dropped. So still not 100% sure it calculates correctly all the time.

None of what you just said in that quote matters. Period. UNTIL you take into account the salient factors of the MECHANICS of how knockdown works.

If you're not unsteady, I can launch 32,923,902,001 missiles at you, with 0 dmg, and 100 stability dmg modifiers (i'm making up non existent wpns for this example, but they follow the mechanics) and you WILL NOT GO DOWN. EVER. NOT on that first salvo. EVER. if you were just ONE POINT away from actually ticking over to 'Unsteady' ALL i would accomplish with that 32 BILLION missile attack, would be to make you unsteady.

After that i could lob a rock at you and you'd fall over, but until then? Not happening.

Stop thinking in terms of "X missiles = chance to fall over" all your arguments seem to be stemming from this

 

[bobucles]

What that guy said. Mechs MUST become unsteady in one action, before they will fall down in the next action. However you can still down a mech in 1 hit by blowing up a leg. The leg will cause an automatic unsteady (as well as high stability damage), and if further stab damage pushes it over the limit it'll go down.

 

[Amechwarrior]

What that guy said. Mechs MUST become unsteady in one action, before they will fall down in the next action. However you can still down a mech in 1 hit by blowing up a leg. The leg will cause an automatic unsteady (as well as high stability damage), and if further stab damage pushes it over the limit it'll go down.

The loss of a leg is an instant knockdown no matter the previous conditions short of already being knocked over.