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Guess I must say that I'm a long time lurker but feel underwlmed to post because my knowledge of WWII and Europa 1400-1800 isn't as good as some here. But i do enjoy EU and hopefully HOI.

Anyway how are these three things handled in HoI. The reason is I'm currently reading about eh Enigma code braekers. A fascinating story on WW2 history. I've read quite about as many previews possible but I don't find much on these subjects.

1) Reconnaissance/Intelligence Gathering. I suppose these are a little of the same. Is this part of the game. Since HOI is based of EU2, I'll start from there. In those games you could pretty much see who had what and where they had it if you were near to them. I don't expect this to be like that in HoI. But let's say you need to monitor troop movement or find where they are putting their factories. I sure hope that there is a fog of war and that we have to do some sort of intelligence gathering instead of the simple way of just flying some bombers over a provence/area and they bomb whereever. I did see some screen shots on the reconnaissance mission for the US fleet but don't know much more details.

2) Spying. Not I don't imagine that this game will get to the level of real life. But is this part of the game. I realize that this could also be put into the category of Intelligence Gathering. Other than intalling puppet regimes and changing politically idealology is there anything like trying to take out national leaders. We do know that Churchhill had attempted numerous attempts to get Hitler.

Along these lines is it important to find out what your enemy is trying to develop. I would imagine if you are playing as Germany entering 44 and you have a good war effort going on, that this would be the time to see if the US is researching atom weaponry. Of vice verse for Russia, US, Japan.



What I fear and we won't know until tomorrow is how intelligence works. I sure hope it's more complecated than EU2 where all you had to do was move into a provence to start a campaign. Hopefully we'll have to do intelligence gathering of our own to see troop locations/size, factories, research level.
 

BiB

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Province knowledge is widely available. There's teh odd stealing of techniology event (teh chance for which can increase with certain inteligence ministers). Unit wise there's fog of war for starters, then if u can see a unit stack u get the overall size but u don't know what is in it. IF u see a carrier on the map with an 18 next to it, that could mean all sorts of things like 4 carriers, 6 battleships and 8 cruisers but u don't know. As ur technology progressess when u hover ur mouse over that unit u get a more and more detailed reconnaissance report of what the stack consists of.
 

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Well, from what i gather (until a beta drops in)

intelligence is determined by Tech, giving you more or less accurate reports, regardles of fog of war, about force compilation on your borders.

There is also a tech dependant percentage for surprise attacks for at least naval and aerial maneovers, symbolising de/encrypting
efforts.

Hope this helps at least somewhat until someone with more knowledge tells you more.
 

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Originally posted by BiB
Province knowledge is widely available. There's teh odd stealing of techniology event (teh chance for which can increase with certain inteligence ministers). Unit wise there's fog of war for starters, then if u can see a unit stack u get the overall size but u don't know what is in it. IF u see a carrier on the map with an 18 next to it, that could mean all sorts of things like 4 carriers, 6 battleships and 8 cruisers but u don't know. As ur technology progressess when u hover ur mouse over that unit u get a more and more detailed reconnaissance report of what the stack consists of.


So in word intelligence gathering isn't a part of the game or is limited. The one war that was being fought just as violently as the frontlines was the war of information. Less blood was shed but both sides want to know about future attacks who had what and so forth.

Does this also mean that everyone will know when someone is attacking because we can see them on the map. Say for instance you are germany and the Allies are launching a D-Day attack. You would know where and when they are launching because you can see them. It kind of makes it hard for surpise attacks or the CPU to suprise attack you when you can see them coming.

Of course someone this the beta coul elaborate more than I.
 

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Dunno, i'm not a beta

*leaving stage for the enlightend ones*

Edit :" There's teh odd stealing of techniology event (teh chance for which can increase with certain inteligence ministers). "
Sounds like e.g. enigma


"Does this also mean that everyone will know when someone is attacking because we can see them on the map. Say for instance you are germany and the Allies are launching a D-Day attack. You would know where and when they are launching because you can see them."

Actually it makes sense, even basic intelligence can predict that there is a invasion fleet (or army for that matter) approching in approx. 10 hours, getting the acurate strength is the tricky part.
 
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BiB

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Originally posted by Rod
So in word intelligence gathering isn't a part of the game or is limited. The one war that was being fought just as violently as the frontlines was the war of information. Less blood was shed but both sides want to know about future attacks who had what and so forth.

Does this also mean that everyone will know when someone is attacking because we can see them on the map. Say for instance you are germany and the Allies are launching a D-Day attack. You would know where and when they are launching because you can see them. It kind of makes it hard for surpise attacks or the CPU to suprise attack you when you can see them coming.

Of course someone this the beta coul elaborate more than I.

This game warwise focuses on teh real war. It may very well be there was a real war of information but that's a new game altogether then. Things like this and supply organising and such are handled as an aside, largely automised to teh main part of the game, the actual war. I, for one, am glad it is, I wouldn't want to be bothered with in detail supply and intelligence gathering, this is grand strategy.
 

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BIB,

Granted a heavy dose of intelligence would probably take some rework on the engine. That's not entirely what I expected out of HoI, so if it's not there no problem.

Where I do see a potential problem is how this affect tactics and campaigns. If there's no intelligence say a warning pop-up, to the effect like English forces appear to be building huge masses in Newcastle, for example. Or German's preparing air raid over so and so. Broken down into the simplest possible situations, could be produced with the game engine.

But I'm getting a ahead of myself. So back to the original question what capacity does Spying, Reconnaissance, Intelligence Gathering play?

I would hope that they aren't ignored completely as I'm getting an impression from BIB.
 

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Originally posted by Rod
Where I do see a potential problem is how this affect tactics and campaigns. If there's no intelligence say a warning pop-up, to the effect like English forces appear to be building huge masses in Newcastle, for example. Or German's preparing air raid over so and so. Broken down into the simplest possible situations, could be produced with the game engine.

There is rollover information in the size and basic composition (2 corps.. that sort of thing) of a unit but nothing in the form of a pop-up.

But I'm getting a ahead of myself. So back to the original question what capacity does Spying, Reconnaissance, Intelligence Gathering play?

Various communication, doctrinal, and electronics advances increase your ability to surprise an enemy unit and others decrease the enemy's ability to surprise your units.
 

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Trip,

I hail from Pueblo. Ft. Collins huh? Do you happen to be a student at CSU?

Let us know if you get the game up in FC. Too bad my store won't probably be getting the game in on time, not because it's Pueblo but it's Software Etc (Gamestop, Babbages).



MWeisner:
Thanks for the info.


I get the perception that intelliegence in the game doesn't really come in to form of surprise attacks say for instance, 'How did the Chinese get their troops there or Whoa the tech levels for America are at this stage. But rather more in the way of how it affects troops effectiveness and other areas.

I'm going to say this with a light stance seeing how I don't have the game and I'm only making assumptions but it's a shame that intelligence gathering doesn't seem to play a bigger role. The allies and axis spent a good deal of time trying to guess where the next attack would be or what weapons the other side had and trying to stop them. I hope at some level this is in the game so as it's not EU2 military system all over again. Where every side knows what the other side is doing.

we'll know tomorrow.
 

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Originally posted by Rod
Trip,

I hail from Pueblo. Ft. Collins huh? Do you happen to be a student at CSU?

Let us know if you get the game up in FC. Too bad my store won't probably be getting the game in on time, not because it's Pueblo but it's Software Etc (Gamestop, Babbages).



MWeisner:
Thanks for the info.


I get the perception that intelliegence in the game doesn't really come in to form of surprise attacks say for instance, 'How did the Chinese get their troops there or Whoa the tech levels for America are at this stage. But rather more in the way of how it affects troops effectiveness and other areas.

I'm going to say this with a light stance seeing how I don't have the game and I'm only making assumptions but it's a shame that intelligence gathering doesn't seem to play a bigger role. The allies and axis spent a good deal of time trying to guess where the next attack would be or what weapons the other side had and trying to stop them. I hope at some level this is in the game so as it's not EU2 military system all over again. Where every side knows what the other side is doing.

we'll know tomorrow.

Hey, u can fly planes around urself to try and find stuff like that :D