Spy, pop growth and balance

[zli674]

The current spy system work too slowly. It takes more time to get an asset than conquering an empire with 2-3 planets. There should be a mechanism to increase the speed of schemes by allocating more envoys or resources.

The pop growth is too slow. The current pop growth decreases if your empire has more pops. This is unrealistic and absurd. You can’t even fill an enumpolis before the pop growth of your empire stops. The only way to play now is raiding pops from an ai empire again and again. It’s kinda boring.

The synthetic ascension is still overpowered because machine pops have more production values. An experienced gamer can finish the ascension in 50-60 years by technology beelining. It seems the balance team don’t know how to play the game in a pvp competition themselves.

 

[zli674]

My suggestion: Mechanism to may spy operate much faster by pouring resources; Pop growth should be tied to planet pops only; Remove the technology buff for machines that makes synthetics too powerful.

 

[Tamwin5]

I think a basic "increase infiltration" operation would be a good thing to add.

 

[The Founder]

I think a basic "increase infiltration" operation would be a good thing to add.

Given that all other Operations cost infiltration, that would a serious departure for how things work.
You could instantly offset the cost from a Operation, just by running that operation instead.

So it would need to have some terrible cost, like Influence.

The current spy system work too slowly. It takes more time to get an asset than conquering an empire with 2-3 planets.

So, why are you spying then? Just conquer them.
Or if you really want to spy, just leave them be until you got whatever it is that you wanted.

 

[zli674]

Because I want to play with the new mechanics. Given that it’s so slow(wait for spy network to grow+long wait time for operations) it’s kinda boring. You clearly didn’t implement stuff so that it’s boring and no one uses it.

 

[zli674]

Given that all other Operations cost infiltration, that would a serious departure for how things work.
You could instantly offset the cost from a Operation, just by running that operation instead.

So it would need to have some terrible cost, like Influence.


So, why are you spying then? Just conquer them.
Or if you really want to spy, just leave them be until you got whatever it is that you wanted.

Given that all other Operations cost infiltration, that would a serious departure for how things work.
You could instantly offset the cost from a Operation, just by running that operation instead.

So it would need to have some terrible cost, like Influence.


So, why are you spying then? Just conquer them.
Or if you really want to spy, just leave them be until you got whatever it is that you wanted.

Given that all other Operations cost infiltration, that would a serious departure for how things work.
You could instantly offset the cost from a Operation, just by running that operation instead.

So it would need to have some terrible cost, like Influence.


So, why are you spying then? Just conquer them.
Or if you really want to spy, just leave them be until you got whatever it is that you wanted.

Spending influence as infiltration level is a good idea.

 

[The Founder]

Because I want to play with the new mechanics. Given that it’s so slow(wait for spy network to grow+long wait time for operations) it’s kinda boring. You clearly didn’t implement stuff so that it’s boring and no one uses it.

Since I am part of the "Everyone" group and I am using it, the argument that "nobody ever uses it" is wrong by default.

The primary purpose (and indeed the only use without Nemsis) is to build Passive Intel on the (fr)enemies.
Operations are really just a bonus if you capped out the Infiltration.

 

[Tamwin5]

Given that all other Operations cost infiltration, that would a serious departure for how things work.
You could instantly offset the cost from a Operation, just by running that operation instead.

So it would need to have some terrible cost, like Influence.

No, just energy. You would be paying a decent amount of energy, as well as time that your spy network isn't doing other things, just to increase your infiltration by a bit. Effectively trading money for time. Maybe this would be better as a separate button or toggle than an operation though, because as you pointed out it is a serious departure from how the other operations work.

 

[The Founder]

No, just energy. You would be paying a decent amount of energy, as well as time that your spy network isn't doing other things, just to increase your infiltration by a bit. Effectively trading money for time. Maybe this would be better as a separate button or toggle than an operation though, because as you pointed out it is a serious departure from how the other operations work.

I fear that would make the spygame a "pay Energy to win" System.
Everyone that wants to be good at spying, has to pay energy to keep up.

If you want to spend a lot on Espionage, there is the "Bureau of Espionage" Edict and their two Gestalt Swaps, "Covert Analysis Algorithm" and "Observation Instinct" - all locked beind "Quantum Hacking" tech. Are they not enough?

 

[The Founder]

The implementation of "Boost Spy network" from this thread sounds like it might be balanced:

Additional Espionage Operations

I am enjoying the espionage feature in Stellaris but feel that there are too few operations. Adding more operations would really spice up what an empire can do to undermine other empires. Here are some possible operation ideas that I have put...

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