Sensor Lock and a large amount of LRMs for the bonus objective. Just stomp everything else while trying not to die to enemy mechs
[SPOILER] Defense: Panzyr campaign mission feedback
- Thread starter DaNuker
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APC moves in phase 2 so best to have a mech in phase three to move up and get sensor lock or direct fire.
Grasshopper with a Pilot with Master Tactician, can just do it.
Grasshopper with a Pilot with Master Tactician, can just do it.
Would a Wolverine with 5/8/4 or 5/8/5 be enough, while also packing enough firepower?
Perfectly able, yes. It´s not like those Atlas-armoured apc´s from the rest of the deployment.
Man, it's amazing hearing folk having so much problems with this mission (and with assaults, no less).
Pretty sure at least 4 of the APCs were simply stomped to death by my Orion.
Pretty sure at least 4 of the APCs were simply stomped to death by my Orion.
Definitely agree that the side-mission is a bit ridiculous on the timing - maybe have a somewhat longer path for the APC to travel before it reaches the barracks? You have the turn in which it spawns, one turn of travel to the barracks, and then on the third turn it hits the marker and the barracks is airlifted away. That's not enough time to mount any sort of action in that direction without foreknowledge of the event. Two turns to take action on anything is too short of a window. If you know to rush a 'mech up that slope from Turn 1, you get four turns to intercept before it hits the marker. Managed to make it work with a lance full of Black Knights with jets, but only after losing to RNG several times (typical for me - any time RNG has the deciding vote, I lose). A longer path for the APC to reach the barracks in just one extra turn would have made it fair-but-tight. Alternatively, a placed obstacle to hamper the APC's movement if the player takes some specific action (blow a generator so an access gate won't open for an extra turn or two, buying time, for instance) would bring player agency into the picture without giving it away completely. I'm guess the people playtesting this particular mission had foreknowledge of the events, and made decisions appropriate to the challenge at hand - unlike the player, who has to fly by the seat of their pants from the word "Go." **
The best part (for me) was during this mission, I encountered a rare bug where a single enemy unit is able to take their full turn twice during a single phase. (it's not specific to this mission, and I've only seen it twice so far) I landed, and on T1 began to move my forces into position, potting the first APC and one of the attacking 'mechs. On T2, the second APC (the one that spawns behind the building) moved its full distance, the game twitched for a second, and then that same APC moved its full range again, past my 'mech standing in the doorway, taking the objective. (I know it was the same APC, because the first APC on the Eastern edge of the map was a burning wreck after T1) Had a similar event happen early on in the game, where a Hunchback wandered into range of one of my Vindicators, punched a hole in its torso with the AC/20, the game twitched, and he fired a second salvo through the same hole and cored my 'mech. (two damage ticks for 100 appeared as well) Pretty frustrating, considering the immense load times. (no, my PC is not to blame - I'll spare everybody the pointless hardware-waving)
I love the rest of the game so much that none of these oversights/bugs make me want to quit playing, but they sure do make the whiskey disappear... Oh, and make me change my mind on save-scumming. I only allow my own screwups to get carried over through a mission. I'll reset the very second a BS spawn or unfair "Suprise!" comes along. I've literally had an entire lance of Heavies spawn surrounding my fire support, as if they magically rose from beneath the barren, solid ground where my entire lance had been standing a single turn before. Soulsborne games gave me a very short patience with fairness, I'll admit, but I'm not going to waste time or tears on an event that is obviously beyond unfair.
** I might be off by a turn on the chronology. Still unfairly tight, and a single additional turn would solve the fairness problem.
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So I finally got around to it, beat it on the first try. But I can still admit it's a garbage fire of a mission rather than pat myself on the back and tell people who didn't to Git Gud.
https://i.imgur.com/EVdJ5mz.jpg
Okay I did reset once. On Turn 1. So my fastest mech wouldn't be the one who spawned the farthest away from the mountain.
Even with max piloting levels of evasive pips and spending vigilance, my Shadowhawk still nearly lost a leg on the run up just from pure RNG, so "It's clearly meant for light mechs!" is the sign of people who either faked their QA or just like to parrot what makes them sound more hardcore.
As for "Just park in front of the gates and the APCS can't reach the main objective base!" I had the final APC clip through my catapult standing in the western gate... Then not trigger a nonstandard game over for some reason, allowing me to U turn and flatten it.
This game is amazing. but the QA clearly not so much.
https://i.imgur.com/EVdJ5mz.jpg
Okay I did reset once. On Turn 1. So my fastest mech wouldn't be the one who spawned the farthest away from the mountain.
Even with max piloting levels of evasive pips and spending vigilance, my Shadowhawk still nearly lost a leg on the run up just from pure RNG, so "It's clearly meant for light mechs!" is the sign of people who either faked their QA or just like to parrot what makes them sound more hardcore.
As for "Just park in front of the gates and the APCS can't reach the main objective base!" I had the final APC clip through my catapult standing in the western gate... Then not trigger a nonstandard game over for some reason, allowing me to U turn and flatten it.
This game is amazing. but the QA clearly not so much.
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Well... Vehicles should not be able to clip through your mechs but each of the 'gates' consists IIRC of two, not just one plots of the hexagrid. And if you have just one mech standing on just one of them then a vehicle can go past and it might give a visual appearance as if it had driven through the mech. I have seen the 'drive through' myself but i have also seen APCs stopping in front of mechs as well.
The task for the runner requires the mech to be protected too. Light would be a bad choice for that role but there are plenty of mediums (and some heavies) which suit to that role quite well. Besides JJs can always give that extra bit of mobility.
And i certainly agree that it is a bad mission - i think the concept is fine but it just doesn't quite work in-game.
The task for the runner requires the mech to be protected too. Light would be a bad choice for that role but there are plenty of mediums (and some heavies) which suit to that role quite well. Besides JJs can always give that extra bit of mobility.
And i certainly agree that it is a bad mission - i think the concept is fine but it just doesn't quite work in-game.
That happened to me on my second campaign playthrough as well. The two gates seem to work differently as a Mech standing in the other one has always blocked the APCs.
Part of why the mission is seems so cheesy is the APC coming from the Dropships are traveling along a road. That's what they're moving that fast.
Assaults are really at a disadvantage here since you want to go before the APCs. (Which move on 2) Ideally a Jump Capable Medium, at least one Jump Capable Heavy, and two heavy 'mechs to round out the lance.
Send the Medium and the Jump Capable heavy to the left towards the medical barracks stomping the two APCs along the way. Have the other two heavies go right and stomp the two APCs coming from that side, then start moving them back to the base because APC number 5 will be using the back road. The APC headed to the medial barracks is only 10 tons and dies easy. However there will be an SRM carrier deployed with APC #5 so watch out.
Once the APCs are gone, the turret will help clean up the rest of the mechs.
Assaults are really at a disadvantage here since you want to go before the APCs. (Which move on 2) Ideally a Jump Capable Medium, at least one Jump Capable Heavy, and two heavy 'mechs to round out the lance.
Send the Medium and the Jump Capable heavy to the left towards the medical barracks stomping the two APCs along the way. Have the other two heavies go right and stomp the two APCs coming from that side, then start moving them back to the base because APC number 5 will be using the back road. The APC headed to the medial barracks is only 10 tons and dies easy. However there will be an SRM carrier deployed with APC #5 so watch out.
Once the APCs are gone, the turret will help clean up the rest of the mechs.
In my playthrough they always stopped in front of the single mech filling the gate. Two APCs in one spot for 2 turns (I was busy shooting at mechs shooting at me).
Also, the turrets activated for me and got in several rounds of very devastating fire. I think they took out 2 mechs pretty much on their own.
I wonder if the APCs could have their road speed reduced in the JSON files... that might make some of the escort missions less frustrating as well, since the darn APCs wouldn't outrun the escorts if you weren't perfectly positioned when they "popped".
Um...everyone's aware there is no Bonus C-Bills for this side achievement right? I've just finished the mission using a fire-starter (which isn't a bad idea, most of what's up there can't hit a 6 chevron pilot, and you can shutdown the long range mediums up that way pretty easily) to dash the APC that comes in.
When you complete the mission you get mission complete objectives for:
* Protect Spaceport
* Prevent Seizing of Dropships
And you get a bonus for:
* Prevent Commando APC's from reaching the Command Center (40%) for a total of 1.982M C-Bills for the mission.
YOU DO NOT GET ADDITIONAL BONUS OR C-BILLS FOR COMPLETING THE SAVE SIDE QUEST.
Basically, you simply don't get chewed out for letting officers get tortured and wounded get killed.
That is all.
NOTE ON LIGHT MECHS:
--------------------------------
For those of you saying "don't bring a light", I tend to disagree and agree both.
I think if you're trying to do this with something like a stock Jenner, you're being suicidal...that thing's got paper thin armor and you're not going to get anywhere with it.
I also think a panther is too slow. Maybe not, but I with 4 JJ's max I just don't see the panther being a better choice than, say, a Shadowhawk.
The REAL scout / light for this mission, I believe, is the Firestarter. A good mix of Weapon and armor (my FS is Stock 440 armor, but shifted a little) and speed...the FS with a 10 Skill pilot and full JJ's (2 ML, 6 Flamer is my build) can get into the base the round BEFORE you get the warning that it's getting close...a full 2R before you lose the side quest. You will be almost up the hill the same round that you get the "incoming" warning.
As you are generally going on P4 (same time as the carrier) you'll generally get to jump into the base and watch it move from it's starting location to a location on the road behind the base. On your next turn 2 ML will absolutely take it out (it's only a 10T APC).
From there, the FS is a solid enough mech with a 6 chevron pilot. With 2 ML and 6 Flamers you can jump to 6 chevrons every round and STILL fire, thus being almost fully protected across the board while still being in range for a +60 heat + 50 Damage shot a turn...with very little heat buildup. My FS did have an exposed CT and RA by the time the mission was done but that was also moving him a short distance so he could get a shot on the Griffin while exposing the SRM Carrier APC to my missile boat...it only got him 2 chevron's of evasion to move where I could get both and I KNEW I was going to eat damage doing it.
GENERAL
----------------
As to how to do this, the basic task is not difficult, you need a tank for the "north" of the base, you need something semi-heavy/high damage for the south west side of the base (bonus if this has LRMs so that you can affect the rest of the battle while still covering the south west side of the map) and you need something high direct damage (sniper) to assist in taking out the initial brunt. You then need something REALLY fast if you want to complete the Barracks Quest for shits and giggles (see above).
BARRACKS:
--------------------
I could not get a fully jump jetted Battlemaster there in time with a 10 Skill Pilot so any Assault class Mech is out of the question. I would question the capability of something like a Grasshopper as well...MAYBE if you have a Grasshopper along with a fastish moving LRM Mech you might get this done but it's questionable. I think the MINIMUM requirement to complete the Barracks quest is a fast Medium (Shadowhawk anyone?).
NOTE: If you intend to take out the APC coming to the barracks with an LRM barrage and Sensor lock, you STILL need probably a fast medium to get into sensor lock range and your LRM boat CANNOT HIT from the base or the bottom area, so you'll need to move the LRM carrier up to the west also significantly to be in range to LRM the incoming carrier. You have till the very beginning of R5 to be in place to destroy it or you fail that mission. The APC will complete the mission on Phase 2 of R5.
If you DO NOT want to do this barracks quest, do yourself a favor, BRING A HEAVY/ASSAULT lance, just ignore the barracks and don't try to speed for anything.
MAIN QUEST:
-------------------------
4 APCs will show by the end of R1. If you have anyone acting before P5 of R1, you'll probably want to reserve to let them show up. That said if you are trying for the Barracks quest your "runner" will likely expose the two APCs to the west and you may get an early shot on them if you're going Pre-P4.
The first 2 Transports (Road to the West, First APC to show off the ramp to the north east) will complete the base capture on P3 of R3...those two need to die first.
The second 2 transports (Forest to the West, Second APC to show off the ramp to the north east) will complete the base capture on P3 of R4...don't worry about these two initially if you don't have the capability of doing so. That said the faster you take down the first 4 transports the faster you'll get the turrets turned back on.
If you're all heavies move someone that can take some damage back toward the west gate to the complex, bonus points if it has LRMs. Assuming your main tank is in slot 2 of the mech drop, they should probably stay where he or she is at...they should have range of the first APC coming off the ramp to the north east and can gain bulwark if they don't move. Otherwise, you can move a bit, but the APCs will be rolling RIGHT PAST you...if you stay where you're at you're in easy stomping range of anything that doesn't get shot properly due to RNG. The other two heavies should spread out between the west gate and northish of the north gate on the western side to take out all the incoming. APC's first and just bulwark/Vigalence the swarm of light/medium damage that comes in.
Once the 4 initial APCs are down, there will be a drop of 2 back to the south west through the forest on that pad. You'll have to I believe P3 of R8 (might be R7...it's 3 rounds after drop) to kill the transport. BE CAREFUL the escort with this APC is an SRM carrier...something like 45 or 60 SRM missiles and it will unleash on anyone in the west doorway second turn after drop...that is a TON of damage and it can core an Assault if it hits with everything...and if your knocked down, it may just let the carrier in.
Finally a Round after the 2 in the south west drop 2 more (1 carrier 1 escort) drop to the north. If you've followed the combat with your tank so far you're probably standing practically on top of where the 2 APCs get dropped and you can either step/flatten the initial guy or (better) go whole hog on the PPC Carrier escort...you'll have another 3 rounds before that APC gets to the base and frankly you can chase it down and step on it pretty easily.
Once the turrets engage it's pretty much all over. Whatever is still standing is going to take damage from about 10 different turrets each round on P1. Again, bulwark is your friend.
When you complete the mission you get mission complete objectives for:
* Protect Spaceport
* Prevent Seizing of Dropships
And you get a bonus for:
* Prevent Commando APC's from reaching the Command Center (40%) for a total of 1.982M C-Bills for the mission.
YOU DO NOT GET ADDITIONAL BONUS OR C-BILLS FOR COMPLETING THE SAVE SIDE QUEST.
Basically, you simply don't get chewed out for letting officers get tortured and wounded get killed.
That is all.
NOTE ON LIGHT MECHS:
--------------------------------
For those of you saying "don't bring a light", I tend to disagree and agree both.
I think if you're trying to do this with something like a stock Jenner, you're being suicidal...that thing's got paper thin armor and you're not going to get anywhere with it.
I also think a panther is too slow. Maybe not, but I with 4 JJ's max I just don't see the panther being a better choice than, say, a Shadowhawk.
The REAL scout / light for this mission, I believe, is the Firestarter. A good mix of Weapon and armor (my FS is Stock 440 armor, but shifted a little) and speed...the FS with a 10 Skill pilot and full JJ's (2 ML, 6 Flamer is my build) can get into the base the round BEFORE you get the warning that it's getting close...a full 2R before you lose the side quest. You will be almost up the hill the same round that you get the "incoming" warning.
As you are generally going on P4 (same time as the carrier) you'll generally get to jump into the base and watch it move from it's starting location to a location on the road behind the base. On your next turn 2 ML will absolutely take it out (it's only a 10T APC).
From there, the FS is a solid enough mech with a 6 chevron pilot. With 2 ML and 6 Flamers you can jump to 6 chevrons every round and STILL fire, thus being almost fully protected across the board while still being in range for a +60 heat + 50 Damage shot a turn...with very little heat buildup. My FS did have an exposed CT and RA by the time the mission was done but that was also moving him a short distance so he could get a shot on the Griffin while exposing the SRM Carrier APC to my missile boat...it only got him 2 chevron's of evasion to move where I could get both and I KNEW I was going to eat damage doing it.
GENERAL
----------------
As to how to do this, the basic task is not difficult, you need a tank for the "north" of the base, you need something semi-heavy/high damage for the south west side of the base (bonus if this has LRMs so that you can affect the rest of the battle while still covering the south west side of the map) and you need something high direct damage (sniper) to assist in taking out the initial brunt. You then need something REALLY fast if you want to complete the Barracks Quest for shits and giggles (see above).
BARRACKS:
--------------------
I could not get a fully jump jetted Battlemaster there in time with a 10 Skill Pilot so any Assault class Mech is out of the question. I would question the capability of something like a Grasshopper as well...MAYBE if you have a Grasshopper along with a fastish moving LRM Mech you might get this done but it's questionable. I think the MINIMUM requirement to complete the Barracks quest is a fast Medium (Shadowhawk anyone?).
NOTE: If you intend to take out the APC coming to the barracks with an LRM barrage and Sensor lock, you STILL need probably a fast medium to get into sensor lock range and your LRM boat CANNOT HIT from the base or the bottom area, so you'll need to move the LRM carrier up to the west also significantly to be in range to LRM the incoming carrier. You have till the very beginning of R5 to be in place to destroy it or you fail that mission. The APC will complete the mission on Phase 2 of R5.
If you DO NOT want to do this barracks quest, do yourself a favor, BRING A HEAVY/ASSAULT lance, just ignore the barracks and don't try to speed for anything.
MAIN QUEST:
-------------------------
4 APCs will show by the end of R1. If you have anyone acting before P5 of R1, you'll probably want to reserve to let them show up. That said if you are trying for the Barracks quest your "runner" will likely expose the two APCs to the west and you may get an early shot on them if you're going Pre-P4.
The first 2 Transports (Road to the West, First APC to show off the ramp to the north east) will complete the base capture on P3 of R3...those two need to die first.
The second 2 transports (Forest to the West, Second APC to show off the ramp to the north east) will complete the base capture on P3 of R4...don't worry about these two initially if you don't have the capability of doing so. That said the faster you take down the first 4 transports the faster you'll get the turrets turned back on.
If you're all heavies move someone that can take some damage back toward the west gate to the complex, bonus points if it has LRMs. Assuming your main tank is in slot 2 of the mech drop, they should probably stay where he or she is at...they should have range of the first APC coming off the ramp to the north east and can gain bulwark if they don't move. Otherwise, you can move a bit, but the APCs will be rolling RIGHT PAST you...if you stay where you're at you're in easy stomping range of anything that doesn't get shot properly due to RNG. The other two heavies should spread out between the west gate and northish of the north gate on the western side to take out all the incoming. APC's first and just bulwark/Vigalence the swarm of light/medium damage that comes in.
Once the 4 initial APCs are down, there will be a drop of 2 back to the south west through the forest on that pad. You'll have to I believe P3 of R8 (might be R7...it's 3 rounds after drop) to kill the transport. BE CAREFUL the escort with this APC is an SRM carrier...something like 45 or 60 SRM missiles and it will unleash on anyone in the west doorway second turn after drop...that is a TON of damage and it can core an Assault if it hits with everything...and if your knocked down, it may just let the carrier in.
Finally a Round after the 2 in the south west drop 2 more (1 carrier 1 escort) drop to the north. If you've followed the combat with your tank so far you're probably standing practically on top of where the 2 APCs get dropped and you can either step/flatten the initial guy or (better) go whole hog on the PPC Carrier escort...you'll have another 3 rounds before that APC gets to the base and frankly you can chase it down and step on it pretty easily.
Once the turrets engage it's pretty much all over. Whatever is still standing is going to take damage from about 10 different turrets each round on P1. Again, bulwark is your friend.
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I managed it with a Grasshopper, had a full 10 skill pilot in it.
Trick was no stopping at any cost, just run, and jump straight up the road.
I entered the barracks the same time the APC turned the corner on the road towards the Barracks from the other side.
Also I had the Grasshopper in slot one, so that moved it on the most left of the deployment points so I saved a few hexes.
And I used my heavy scout pilot in it with ace pilot so he could move on phase 3
Think you need a jumpable mech to get the last part up to the barracks other wise you need to take the road that is a longer way.
I was thinking about taking my Quickdraw at first but then decided to try it with the Grasshopper as he has more armor.
The rest of the lance was a Highlander, he played the Gandalf role, you shall not pass by blocking the front entry to the base.
An Orion which went to the left with the Grasshopper, taking out APCs and keeping the 2 mechs there busy.
A Thunderbolt who went right to the Dropships to spot and shoot the other APCs.
I just finished this mission using only the AC/2 and melee.
I give all my thoughts and a guide on how to win it (and my decision making) throughout the video
I give all my thoughts and a guide on how to win it (and my decision making) throughout the video
Just fyi, i did secondary with jenner with max jj & 4ML, it's totally ok, just run to the barracks, was under the slope when APC spawned and jumped and shoot it at the road no problem. Definitely used vigilance once, but otherwise it's totally safe.
I'd have had to have tried this mission two or three times without this thread, if you don't know what's coming it's not really beatable -- the APCs just start too close to their objectives and move too fast.
Something occurred to me last night.
Just because the APC gets into the base, that's the end of it?
If your mechs are right there... anyone who would get out of the APC to rush the buildings in the compound would come under a withering hail of fire. Imagine what a barrage of fire from a mech firing at the door of an APC as the commandos tried to get out would do.
Just because the APC gets into the base, that's the end of it?
If your mechs are right there... anyone who would get out of the APC to rush the buildings in the compound would come under a withering hail of fire. Imagine what a barrage of fire from a mech firing at the door of an APC as the commandos tried to get out would do.