As the title say. Since they some times want office and sometimes industry and we should not have to guess what they want.
Just add a bar with Office demand!
Just add a bar with Office demand!
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Split Industry and office bar!
- Thread starter D3nn05
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1+ I've never really understood the need to lump in office and industry together in a demand bar. Office and industry are hardly in same category. Office is not manufacturing or extraction like industry is.
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Really? Then I guess the guys who made this game are not considered part of the gaming industry? And they do work in an office.
Industry is not just about manufacturing and extraction, there are other areas which contribute to industry and work out of offices.
Industry is not just about manufacturing and extraction, there are other areas which contribute to industry and work out of offices.
Might be an idea for a mod, but I don't think this is a good idea for the main game. I take it the industry demand bar is really supposed to represent a general demand for employment, and people might be willing to work in both heavy industry and in offices and so on.
The OP has a point here. The manual states "Industrial and office zones do not have separate density classes. Instead,they both count for Industrial zoning demands, but work in different ways."
The difference with offices is that they offer jobs for higher tech level citizens.
Therefore a separate demand bar for offices is justified as it is a reflection of the demand of better educated people, whereas standard goods producing industry tends to offer jobs for lower educated persons.
It can be a bit hit and miss when building offices to make sure you have the population of correctly educated people to fill the jobs there whereas the yellow zone industry can get higher educated people to fill lesser jobs if those people don't have any other choice.
I'm not sure of the tax income on offices over standard industry, but if offices work better for the tax income then maximizing it by being aware of the demand would be of benefit to the player.
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I think a better info view can be show if we click the RCI bar. With more details like specific demands. like residential demand, which kind of residents? Uneducated? Well educated? Coz now the employment system is a bit of guess work
Remember to search before you post about something people.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?844513-Seperate-quot-yellow-quot-bars
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?844513-Seperate-quot-yellow-quot-bars
I absolutely agree. I don't think it should be separated in the HUD, because 3 bars are a classic. But there SHOULD be a demand sub-window that shows more information on the specific zones, like in Simcity 4, for example:
Game devs develops games in office, the physical media for the said games is manufactured in plants. Game devs would create office demand while at same time creating separate industrial demand through manufacturing plants needed for their games on physical media. But if the said game development studio only make games available on digital media, then it would only generate office demand, not industrial demand. Industry zone is typically thought of in city simulators as one pertaining to manufacturing / extraction, while offices is commercial in nature. I don't think the line between them is so clear cut, though.
Exactly Trase.
I have often held my mouse over the demand window because i thought that a more detailed info would pop up, to show me exactly what was needed. As Chief of staff mentioned.
I see those 2 the same way, and not as one unit you can put together in one demand bar.
I have often held my mouse over the demand window because i thought that a more detailed info would pop up, to show me exactly what was needed. As Chief of staff mentioned.
I see those 2 the same way, and not as one unit you can put together in one demand bar.
Whether to build offices or industry is up to the player. The citizens will work in either one, that is why the bars are combined. It's your city, your choice of how to provide work for your citizens. If you choose to have only industry, the highly educated people will work at lower education jobs happily. But for most tax revenue you should aim at leveling up the industry and/or using office zone when your citizens start to be highly educated.
It would still be nice to be able to see more in the population view then just total jobs and number of works. IF these could be presented as.
- number of uneducated jobs available vs. Number of uneducated workers in city.
- and same for each education level.
But this would be best if you also could affect who get educated in city in som better way.
Atleast I enjoy trying to have a bit of all and different kind of neighbourhoods which with how education works is always city wide. All you can do is have less education but then its random who gets educated.
IF i could choose to make a well educated neighbourhood with offices close by and another uneducated area with industry nearby I at the same time in a way plan my traffic which you cant do at the moment.
The game does give you percentages. Take the percent and multiply it by the city's population and there you go.
Dose that mean i can build a citie with just office and get rid of the noise and ground pollution? Will stores import all there good if i have no industry?
Edit: this would also make your citie a ghost town, since office generate almost non traffic.
office zone:
Industry:
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The procentage under education, is that for the entire population? Or just for the part that can take a job?
For instance I got in my city:
Population: 82405
People employed: 41332
Jobs available: 42516
Unemployment: 4%
I guess only young Adults and Adults can work? Those make up 58% of my population which is around 48000 people. If I add unemployed people 41332/0.96 = 43054 (only unemployed if you actually can work, not senior children etc) I am not near 48000 people. So I dont seem to know who can work here really.
So If I also factor in that 48% is highly educated, of what number? population? workforce? Can a senior be highly educated, probably but does that affect the informationview? So yes the data might be available but unless I miss some view with inofmration it isnt that obvious. I would like that to be more visible in the population view.
Hence my suggestion for a separate demand bar in support of the OP. Since office tax income is greater then we should have an indicator of office demand. It's too muddled when both standard industry and offices are mixed in the one demand bar but each type operates differently.
Maybe someone can mod this is somehow. CO have enough issues for now without this low priority suggestion.
Why? They're two sides of the same coin! Products are still "manufactured" in offices - just look at the software industry. Offices can also provide services to a population.
Ok, you're just not understanding the concept. I'll explain in very precise terms:
Standard industry (yellow zone) has the following attributes:
1. Tends to attract lower educated workers as a generalization (especially if you don't upgrade)
2. Creates ground pollution.
3. Creates noise pollution.
4. Creates traffic
5. Benefits from cargo terminals (port and rail)
6. Creates less tax income than offices.
7. Supplies goods to commercial zones.
Offices have the following attributes:
1. Tends to attract higher educated workers
2. Does not create ground pollution.
3. Does not create noise pollution.
4. Creates very little traffic.
5. Creates more tax income than standard industry.
6. Does not supply anything to commercial zones.
So, apart from them both employing people, creating tax income and producing stuff (standard industry - make goods, offices - provide services, mostly) they aren't very similar at all.
The argument for having separate demand bars is even more significant in light of the above differences.
Since CO went out of their way to create offices as a separate entity with vastly different requirements and effects they really need to provide a separate demand bar for it.
This is a RCIO game. Offices are a nice addition but mixing it with standard industry just because individual vertical service markets are termed "industry" is really missing the point and fails to recognize the distinct differences between the two entities.
I would rather just call offices high density industrial, to conform to the other two bars, because in essence, that's what it was. In SC4, when you zoned high density industrial and had very educated workers, the factories would become high tech, or even offices. Same principle applies to Cities: Skylines, except in this game, since office demand would not arise until you had highly educated workers, the bar for demand wouldn't fill until later on in the game, when it is naturally unlocked by city growth.
And with that being said, high density commercial and residential should have their own bars as well? I would liken OP's idea to SC4's farming and normal industry, as well as Cities: Skylines attributes towards specialization. Too many info bars. Industry is industry, and demand is demand, we already know that educated/high educated workers will go to offices simply by having a higher education, but, just as CO said, they will settle for less to keep demand constant (much like what's been happening since 2008 IRL), so there is really no need for an extra bar.
It would be easier, however, to implement the demand as a demographic when RCI is clicked upon, but not create a whole new demand bar for something that does not contribute to the overall effectiveness of city growth.
And with that being said, high density commercial and residential should have their own bars as well? I would liken OP's idea to SC4's farming and normal industry, as well as Cities: Skylines attributes towards specialization. Too many info bars. Industry is industry, and demand is demand, we already know that educated/high educated workers will go to offices simply by having a higher education, but, just as CO said, they will settle for less to keep demand constant (much like what's been happening since 2008 IRL), so there is really no need for an extra bar.
It would be easier, however, to implement the demand as a demographic when RCI is clicked upon, but not create a whole new demand bar for something that does not contribute to the overall effectiveness of city growth.