Species diversity inside an empire

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Cocco81

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In my plays so far I've never found any practical reason not to have multi-species empires, for the flexibility this gives in colonizing different planets (as early as day 1, instead of waiting and paying for terraforming).

Q1: Roleplaying aside, is there any advantage in going "starting-species-only", purging everyone else?

Q2: Am I right saying that having multispecies increases xenophile ethics? And therefore even an empire which starts xenophobic would eventually turn xenophile in due time if multiple species are allowed? (souldn't it be the opposite, or at least subject to events?)
 

Cocco81

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I mean, you can just enslave them.

but yeah, if you're going full murder hobo you might as well already go full murder hobo, in which case... you'd have access to a pretty powerful civic...

do you mean gestalt consciousness? I know that one is just preventing you from having other pops.
But the question was another: if i can choose, is there any good reason NOT to go multiracial?

I would have expected unity bonus for single-race, or production/research penalties for multi-race unless the empire is xenophile (and worse penalties if xenophobe)... Am I just missing those, is is it really not a good option to go single race?
 

Urza1234

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Q2: Am I right saying that having multispecies increases xenophile ethics? And therefore even an empire which starts xenophobic would eventually turn xenophile in due time if multiple species are allowed? (souldn't it be the opposite, or at least subject to events?)
Its a little more complicated than that, but you're correct in a general sense. The full faction attractions are described on the ethics page of the wiki: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Ethics

The way that Xenophobes keep their faction attraction up in a multi-species empire is by enslaving xenos, and/or by keeping some Repugnant xenos around
Q1: Roleplaying aside, is there any advantage in going "starting-species-only", purging everyone else?
Are there practical reasons to play Xenophobe? Yes, the new housing and job system has made Xenophobe incredibly powerful via slavery, livestock, and other purging options.

Are there practical reasons to play Xenophobe without taking advantage of Slavery?.... There are a few niche builds I know of, like Tall Barbaric Despoilers, or perhaps a Post Apocalyptic or adaptability playthrough. Maybe a Xenophobe + Materialist run, you dont need slaves if you have robos.

for the flexibility this gives in colonizing different planets (as early as day 1, instead of waiting and paying for terraforming).
Sorta seems like begging the question. Certainly taking advantage of multi-xeno playstyles are one way to play and expand, but I think I would disagree that Teraforming is not viable, or that any of the many other expansion options are not viable.

If Multi-xeno is your preference thats fine, but from your phrasing its unclear whether you are sincerely asking for alternatives, or just trying to prove that your way is best.
 

Cocco81

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If Multi-xeno is your preference thats fine, but from your phrasing its unclear whether you are sincerely asking for alternatives, or just trying to prove that your way is best.

No no i don't ask questions I already know the answer to. It's just that by the time I get terraforming other races are usually available if going multi, making terraforming in a multirace empire less useful, unless I miss something which I'd like someone to point out.
Of course to stay "pure" you either terraform or play tall as hell.

context: I have been away for some time, much has changed (besides a short game in 2.0, my older games used warp drives...) so I'm trying to re-learn as much as pkssible by reading, because playtime is not as much as 2+ years ago
 

AlanC9

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Honestly, terraforming isn't all that great anyway now that non-habitability penalties have been severely nerfed.
 

Derp

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no, there's no inherent penalty to having multiple species in your empire. if you are xenophile you can even get a perk that increases growth rate and allows the (random) creation of genetically superior hybrids.
 

Defiler99

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Another reason, and the one that influences me the most, is that it's easy to get bonus genetic traits for your founding species.
There's (mostly) no way to achieve the same thing with non-founder citizen species, other than going Biological Ascension, at which point you probably mod all your species to be identical anyway.

In particular I prefer to play single-species empires when I'm going for Psionic Ascension, because it lets me double-down on the bonuses.
If I'm also xenophobic, this all makes it trivial to reach 100% stability on every planet. You can achieve the same with Xenophile empires, but then you're giving up your ability to optimize your species traits.
 

SpectralShade

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Honestly, terraforming isn't all that great anyway now that non-habitability penalties have been severely nerfed.
increased upkeep costs for pops that don't like the enviroment they are in doesn't seem like a nerf to me compared to the old system.

Personally the new system caused me to go from a "all xenos are welcome" playstyle to a "get lost filthy xenos, cause you cost me resources I could spend better elsewhere with your constant desire to settle in systems I don't want you in. Basicly the combination of the change to upkeeps coupled with the change to pop growth where least represented pops start growing just caused me to abandon that area of the game totally. It's too much of a bother with micro managing lest you suddenly find yourself paying higher upkeep costs than you need to. Terraforming all planets to the same type and only having pops with that climate preference is far easier on the resources than playing the friendly xeno lover. ironically, the ethics that doesn't get as much affected by the problems are the non-xeno loving ethos, cause they just enslave them and take away a huge chunk of the costs that way.

The whole pop-handling in le guin is a huge own goal by the devs, imo. Previously I used different species and had different climate types of planets in my empires. Now, it's just too troublesome to bother with and it's mono-climate all the way for me as it gives a better return of my time investment in the game.
 

Highlordelliot

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In my plays so far I've never found any practical reason not to have multi-species empires, for the flexibility this gives in colonizing different planets (as early as day 1, instead of waiting and paying for terraforming).

Q1: Roleplaying aside, is there any advantage in going "starting-species-only", purging everyone else?

Q2: Am I right saying that having multispecies increases xenophile ethics? And therefore even an empire which starts xenophobic would eventually turn xenophile in due time if multiple species are allowed? (souldn't it be the opposite, or at least subject to events?)
It’s all fun and good times until they have to choose the pizza toppings. Then it hits the fan.
 

Urza1234

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Alright, well "if going multi" then I agree, there is almost no point to ever even unlock Terraforming.
You are of course, not forced to go multi.
The only phenomenon that ever forces you to have xenos in your empire is if you decide to conquest planets that already have Filth growing on them.

There are a number of ways to play "tall as hell" that do not require you to really ever conquest. These include Megacorp playstyles, Pacifist playstyles, Federations, Liberators, Vassalizers. Diplomacy isnt great, but there are still tons of ways to use diplomacy to exert influence over the Galaxy, and benefit from it, without directly controlling filth planets.

In terms of mono-species conquest options, Xenophobe has the best purge options, and its still not clear to me whether you find slavery acceptable, but everyone at least has access to Displacement.
This leaves you to find a good way to deal with Habitability while you conquest without resorting to employing all that Filth.
I'll point out that its much easier to conquest in a monospecies way if you first restrain yourself from overconquesting before you have the techs you need to do so.

1. Terraforming
This is probably the most vanilla solution. However, its also actually quite easy to get. Since you are returning, you may not know that its quite possible/easy to strategize your acquisition of the Terrestrial Sculpting tech.
a. Researching using a New Worlds scientist gives Terrestrial Sculpting a 25% increased chances to appear
b. Adopting the Expansion tradition gives Terrestrial Sculpting an additional 25% chance to appear
c. Also note, that you will not receive all those annoying techs to clear 5 billion types of tile blockers if those tile blockers do not appear on any of your planets. Terraforming changes the tile blockers on the planet to ones appropriate for your habitability type, so if you Terraform first before ever colonizing Red or even Yellow habitability planets you will actually have a decent chunk of savings in terms of society techs that you get to skip.
d. Terraforming is only a tier 2 tech, which should be quite easy to obtain, but it can actually be obscured by overcolonizing early, since you will get bombarded with the aforementioned Blocker techs if you do colonize less habitable planet types

2. Gene Tailoring
This is the starter to the Genetics ascension path. While its great for Xenophiles, its also great for Xenophobes and nearly everyone else as well. Relevantly to the current discussion, it also comes with the passive Self-Modification feature.
What Self-Modification does is that when you have at least 3 pops of your Main species on a planet where they have less than 40% habitability, they will after an average of 200 months self-modify to have the same habitability as the planet they are on.
This is a tier 3 tech however, so its slightly harder to start than Terraforming

3. Adaptive
There are at least 3 excellent traits you can get early to increase your pops adaptiveness.

4. Robots
Robo playstyles dont really have a need for slavery or any kind of menial worker, since they already have all sorts of robots for that. Robots come with 200% habitability everywhere, meaning you can specialize your Red and Yellow planets as Rural Robo worlds. Then, if the robot player chooses to fully pursue the robot ascension, Synths come with their own Synth assimilation style.


Your ultimate question however is whether or not any of these options are strictly better than just playing Multi-xenophile. The answer is tied up in what ethics and playstyle you use in addition to any of the above strategies.
None of the tall playstyles are at all hurt by not choosing to go multi-xeno, and these playstyles are frequently at least partly either Pacifist of Militarist. Its possible to use either Pacifist or Militarist as an adjunct to Xenophile, but its also possible to either focus on them or combine them with many other playstyles.
If you're playing Wide and decide to conquest a planet full of xeno-filth... Only Xenophobes get any real benefit from purging that filth. Authoritarians could technically try to sell all the filth on the slave market.
If you're playing with one of the wide options, but you're not Authoritarian or Xenophobe, purging out the filth basically just comes down to a cost/benefit of how you mange these alien pops, and whether in the long run you save resources by doing so. Most players would tell you that "growth is king" so any pop is a valuable pop whether its xeno-filth or not. If you subscribe to that, but have no way to enslave the filth, then yes your whole empire will eventually swing Xenophile.

You do, in the early and mid-game, at least have the option with some Ethics of implementing population controls on the filth, so that it will eventually be replaced by your main species. This gives you all the upsides of whatever neato main species you play, with few downsides.
 
Last edited:

Foefaller

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No no i don't ask questions I already know the answer to. It's just that by the time I get terraforming other races are usually available if going multi, making terraforming in a multirace empire less useful, unless I miss something which I'd like someone to point out.
Of course to stay "pure" you either terraform or play tall as hell.

context: I have been away for some time, much has changed (besides a short game in 2.0, my older games used warp drives...) so I'm trying to re-learn as much as pkssible by reading, because playtime is not as much as 2+ years ago

Not since 2.0? Well then....

With 2.2, pop growth is extremely important, and Xenophobes get a bonus to pop growth.

Though it's gotten better with recent patches, planets quickly become cosmopolitan with the influx of new species in your empire, and it doesn't take long before you have a nigh impossible to micromanage mix of pops doing jobs that other pops on the same planet would be better at (This goes times infinity with Xeno Compatibility, even though it is still an amazing perk despite that.) Single species Xenophobes have a much easier time at it, since there is only one pop type to worry about, and robots are still a thing of you want some amount of specialization.

Finally, if you plan on enforcing your single-species beyond simply displacement, Xenophobes have access to the best types of purging that result in additional resources from said pops as they are getting wiped out, especially for Fanatic Purifiers.
 

stumason

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Q1: Roleplaying aside, is there any advantage in going "starting-species-only", purging everyone else?

This is my personal opinion, but it certainly keeps things simple.

However, In my current (heavily modded btw) game, I have a few species in my Empire, but my founder species accounts for 80% of the population - the others are either slaves on their home worlds and not allowed to migrate, or there are a couple I granted residency too, so they could fill some specialist slots. Along with some gene modding, I've made some super specialist planets using xenos - like the Snaekoids I uplifted on their desert world, they are quite skillful at producing energy.

Q2: Am I right saying that having multispecies increases xenophile ethics? And therefore even an empire which starts xenophobic would eventually turn xenophile in due time if multiple species are allowed? (souldn't it be the opposite, or at least subject to events?)

Yes, if they aren't enslaved. Free xeno's in your empire does increase the xenophile pull though.
 

Mohreb

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Some traits like the brainslug trait are not bound to the founder species. Ie. if you have a syncretic evolution, that species will also get that trait.

Also cross-breeding of some special traits is possible, so that other species can get some traits too (ie. brainslug or the servile trait). And for that ascension perk (xeno-compatiblity), you do not need the biological ascension path.

Also with the biological ascension path, you would be doing something wrong - not utilizing the real power of the ascension path - if you would mod all species to be identical. You usually want a pop optimized for the job he/she/it is currently performing (or which you want that pop to perform).
Well hybrids have +1 trait point and an other pick slot.
Also you can make them "almost" identical so that hybrids get a predictible (and better) result.
Hmm, should try
Fertile erudite communal natural sociologist +
fertile robust communal natural sociologist
Maybe they mix...
EDIT : tested and they don't seem to mix (run for a while with those two races on my planets and had no inter breed hybrids)
 
Last edited:

Riftwalker

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do you mean gestalt consciousness? I know that one is just preventing you from having other pops.
But the question was another: if i can choose, is there any good reason NOT to go multiracial?

I would have expected unity bonus for single-race, or production/research penalties for multi-race unless the empire is xenophile (and worse penalties if xenophobe)... Am I just missing those, is is it really not a good option to go single race?

i meant fanatic purifier, which makes your empire very deadly.