Special planets and ascensed ringworlds

[Archael90]

Currently we have 4 special planets, that require ascension perks for each:
- Gaia world
- Ecumenopolis
- Hive world
- Machine world
Each and every has its pros and cons, and i dont want to start discussion about unlimited districts on gaia planets, unity districts on hive worlds etc.
What i want here to sat that even if those worlds are special and require ascension perks, every empire can use them with no problem.
My suggestion is to make those worlds 0% habitability, and ascension perks not only allowing for creating those worlds but also increasing their habitability by 100%
(Natural, and event granted worlds should have habitability modifers, so everyone can use them at full potential).
As for ringworlds
Those should have 60% habitability that can be increased by techs, traits etc. and galactic wonders ap should increase it to 100%.
Last thing is that having both "galactic wonders" and special planet ap should allow for making ringworlds those special types so: hive ring, machine ring, gaia ring, ecu ring, with those special modifers like increased productivity, additional spawning drones etc. and special dustricts like foundry or unity districts (and specializations) when having project arcology.

So i see that forum community of stellaris prefer common, unspecialized rw with no ability to make it more simmilar to terraformed planets then?

 

[Incompetent]

Finding a Gaia or Relic world out in the galaxy is supposed to be special and exciting. If you have to take a whole AP to even use it (or to upgrade Relic->Ecu), and that AP lets you make more pretty much anywhere, what would even be the point of spawning them in the galaxy?

Machine/Hive worlds are terraformed specially to be optimal for the relevant Gestalt, so it makes sense that they are less hospitable. Machine worlds already have bad habitability for everyone except machine/robot pops and Assimilator cyborgs (and machine/robot pops don't care about habitability anyway), and Hive worlds already have bad habitability for non-Hives, so nothing needs to change there. About the only situation I can see where a special penalty might make sense is if a Hive takes over a Hive World from another Hive; you could say it's still "infested" by the old hive and needs to be cleaned up somehow. Even then though, I don't think the cleanup should be as expensive as re-terraforming or taking an AP.

 

[Archael90]

Finding a Gaia or Relic world out in the galaxy is supposed to be special and exciting. If you have to take a whole AP to even use it (or to upgrade Relic->Ecu), and that AP lets you make more pretty much anywhere, what would even be the point of spawning them in the galaxy?

Yeah, im not neglecting that, this is why i have said also this:

(Natural, and event granted worlds should have habitability modifers).

But it seems some people read only what they want...

About the only situation I can see where a special penalty might make sense is if a Hive takes over a Hive World from another Hive

Yes. Why im spending precious ascension perk just to someone who take entirely different perk could use my things?
Im investing into those worlds and i find this very unfair that anyone can use my work just because its done.

 

[Tamwin5]

0% habitability is far too much and makes no sense.

There is actually a significant difference between Ecumenopoli and other three. Hive/Machine/Gaia planets you want to turn every planet into, effectively. So finding one doesn't really reduce the attractiveness of the ascension perk. Ecumenopoli, on the other hand, you really only need one. So if you find a relic world or two, the attractiveness of the perk basically drops to 0.

What I could see is reducing the base habitability of Ecumenopoli to 80% (same as relic worlds), then have the Ecumenopoli perk give the extra 20% habitability as well as some of the bonuses that are currently intrinsic to the Ecumenopolis planet type (+50% pop growth and +20% resources from hobs). That would make the perk much more attractive even if you already have one in your space.

 

[Archael90]

0% habitability is far too much and makes no sense.

There is actually a significant difference between Ecumenopoli and other three. Hive/Machine/Gaia planets you want to turn every planet into, effectively. So finding one doesn't really reduce the attractiveness of the ascension perk. Ecumenopoli, on the other hand, you really only need one. So if you find a relic world or two, the attractiveness of the perk basically drops to 0.

What I could see is reducing the base habitability of Ecumenopoli to 80% (same as relic worlds), then have the Ecumenopoli perk give the extra 20% habitability as well as some of the bonuses that are currently intrinsic to the Ecumenopolis planet type (+50% pop growth and +20% resources from hobs). That would make the perk much more attractive even if you already have one in your space.

I can agree that 0% is too much, but 60% for Gaia is sensible, since its planet for every species, but nothing can be Perfect for everyone, do gaia can fit all pops, but none of them being perfect, yet with ap you can rise Your empire gaia habitability to 100% (simmilar to machine and hive worlds).
Event and natural gaia planets can get modifer granting them 100% habitability.
Ecus on the other hand, are heavily urbanized planets that should need special maintenance, and procedures for use, do 0% habitability is sensible, but even if just reduced to 80% - 60%, perk should increase it to 100%. And even without this nerf, with second part of this thread - ascended rw, this ap would be quite powerfull.

 

[FinbarFlin]

You often see planetary ring stations in sci-fi (Starship Trooper, Elysium, Warhammer 40K and other), would be nice to have some of those... could just work like megacorp franchises... should be mega weak... just a mechanic to dump surplus resources you dont need to make your planet look more fancy... just like those Anno palace decorations...

Sometimes i pause the game just to zoom into planets and watch them, stars too or watch the city lights on the dark side of colonized planets...

 

[HFY]

its planet for every species, but nothing can be Perfect for everyone

Sir you are playing a game with space magic like FTL and psionics and dragons.

Gaia World may not be realistic with our current technology and knowledge, but this game has never been constrained by our current technology or understanding.

 

[FinbarFlin]

Sir you are playing a game with space magic like FTL and psionics and dragons.

Gaia World may not be realistic with our current technology and knowledge, but this game has never been constrained by our current technology or understanding.

How DARE you to call FTL "space magic" QQ How DARE YOU!!! QQ

 

[Incompetent]

Yeah, im not neglecting that, this is why i have said also this:

But it seems some people read only what they want...

Sure, but then you're putting a habitability modifier on every Gaia world (and there are a number of ways of getting them) except ones created through World Shaper terraforming. That sounds like a lot of clutter to me and doesn't make sense given that Gaia worlds are "naturally" very habitable.

I'd turn it around: in effect, what you're really asking for is for World Shaper to put a special "security lock" on your planet that trashes habitability for any conquerors (unless they happen to have World Shaper, or just not care because they're machines). I don't really see the justification for this. Sure, it sucks when you lose a war and now the enemy is benefitting from your special planets, but that's just how conquest in Stellaris works. If you want to put some kind of nasty modifier on your own planets when someone else conquers them, that sounds like a great idea for its own perk, and it can apply to every colony, not just the special ones.

 

[Archael90]

I'd turn it around: in effect, what you're really asking for is for World Shaper to put a special "security lock" on your planet that trashes habitability for any conquerors (unless they happen to have World Shaper, or just not care because they're machines).

And this changes nothing in my suggestion, just modifer is replaced, but why not, this also would do.

I don't really see the justification for this. Sure, it sucks when you lose a war and now the enemy is benefitting from your special planets, but that's just how conquest in Stellaris works.

Yeah... i dont see getting stronger defence platforms when won war against empire with eternal vigilance. Im not geting additional dmg versus fallen empires, or crisis just because i won war against galactic contender, or defender of the galaxy. I cant suddenly reach for the shroud... even if i conquered whole enemy empire. Yet they can use my precious planets with no effort... I cant even use temples or citadel of faith when conquered planets from spiritualists, and its not even an ascension perk. So no, conquest does not works that way.

 

[Ryika]

Honestly, my number one takeaway from this thread is that you should probably invest more resources into defending your stuff.

 

[HFY]

Losing the pops on a developed colony hurts worse than losing any one special planet.

Pops are power; planets are cool background art for power.

 

[MateuszS]

TL;DR answer to OP: be a winner, not a whiner.

 

[Starfury]

If anything I see this more as a possibility for a "Scorched Earth" kind of RP Civic.

I.e. your planets have a massive self-destruct mechanism killing all pops and turning the planet into a 100 devastation tomb world when an enemy successfully invades your planet.

Completely pointless maybe outside of Multiplayer, where it might turn you into a less attractive target.

 

[Pancakelord]

It might be good for planets to decay if you lack the relevant perk.

• Ecumenopolis, machine and ring worlds]
  • stacking every 25 years "Poorly maintained world" up to 4x
    • -10% biological habitability
    • -10% MI drone and robotic pop output
    • -2 jobs and -2 housing from each ringworld segment. (-2 clerks, -2 researchers, -2 farmers, -1 metallurgist/1artisan )
  • After the above 100 years, a timer is slapped on the planet, and in another 50 it will decay in to (respectively)
    • a relic world (without any blockers you can harvest for relics)
    • a tomb world with a "former machine world" modifier on it (making it cheaper to terraform back in to that + reducing district build costs/time)
    • a "Decrepit Ringworld" modifier is added
      • increasing pop crime/deviance and sprawl by 15%, each.
      • -25% colony trade output.
  • Taking the relevant perk before the world fully degrades, will disable all effects and the timer.
  • If you own the mega-engineering tech, you can burn unity monthly via a decision, to prevent the world decaying any further (freezes timers) - but you cant restore the damage done.
• Hive Worlds
  • stacking every 25 years "Non-compliant world" up to 4x
    • -10% Bio-drone output
    • +10% base drone deviance
  • After 100 years, a timer is slapped on the planet, and in another 50 it will decay in to whatever world it was before being a hiveworld (if barren, become a tomb world).
  • If annexed by another hivemind with the Hive perk, the world is forcibly made compliant, killing the planet modifier off.
  • If annexed by another hivemind without the Hive perk but with evolutionary mastery
    • Spend x unity per month (scaling with planet size) to "integrate planet into Gestalt network" and suppress Feral effects.
• Gaian worlds (that have been terraformed by someone after the game started (without the Baol precursor or plantoid civic)
  • so this would not affect planets that are initially Gaian, like FE holy worlds.
  • stacking every 25 years "Collapsing Ecosphere" up to 4x
    • -10% biological habitability
    • +10% MI drone and robotic upkeep costs
  • after a further 50 years the planet will transform back in to the last habitable world type before it became Gaian (if this was a barren type, it will instead pick a random wet, dry or cold world based on the preference of the dominant species on the colony at the time)
  • Taking the relevant AP [or plantoid civic or getting the Baol precursor] before the world fully degrades, will disable all effects and the timer.

This would really only affect players that play really long games (as it would take 100-150 years after conquest to see this play out), but I think it might be a cool way to respect the power/scarcity of these worlds without totally invalidating your conquests.

 

[grommile]

Yes. Why im spending precious ascension perk just to someone who take entirely different perk could use my things?

Because your strategy involves using that perk to make yourself stronger so it is harder for them to take your things in the first place.

 

[HFY]

It might be good for planets to decay if you lack the relevant perk.

• Ecumenopolis, machine and ring worlds]

Eh, if I restore Fen Hobbits early enough, then I want it to continue working for a few hundred years.

That planet *is* the precursor reward, I don't want it to be jerked out from under me.

 

[OnyxAbussos]

Fen Hobbits

Now I will think if hobbits every single time I see that planet. A giant ecu filled with little halflings eating second breakfast and elevensies.

 

[HFY]

Now I will think if hobbits every single time I see that planet. A giant ecu filled with little halflings eating second breakfast and elevensies.

That's why the First League fell, after all: they couldn't make enough food on their Ecumenopolis to support Second Breakfast and Elevensies.

(Which is also a swamp, somehow, because they're Fen Hobbitses.)