Special Forces - The Best and The Worst

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Originally posted by Captain Anson
Yes I personally believe that the Brits have the Best fighting troops in the world.

I dont believe that this was always the case throughout history though.But they were probably one of the most successful in modern European History.

My relatives have a strong military background (WW2, WW1, Boer War)

2 of my realatives also won the George Cross for civilain actions in WW2 (I Know that one was for kicking incendary bombs off a petrol station, ummm you would have to be pretty mad!)

One area I would criticize the Brits would be Ireland, in this case I dont think they always were anything to be proud of.

Anyway im sorry for any strong defences because my blood boils when the Brit forces are criticized when they shouldent be.

Im sure we would get on if we were face to face

Thanks
Captain Anson

I supose it's kind of rude to introgect into a conversation but don't you think that it is pretty ludicrice to say that Britain is number one in everything? Now don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for the British millitary and Britain in general, Britain is my second favorite country, and from what I have heard I would say the SAS is probably the best but I still think that saying Britain is number one in everything seems a little odd to me.

A question. I am assuming that you are just talking about the quality of the men, not equiptment is this the case?

 

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Britain is not no 1 in everything military. It simply isn't. I love the army, I've got mates in the army and once I'm settled living somewhere for a good while I'll probably end up in the TA but to say we are the best at everything devalues the currency.

The British army is superb. When one considers the size of it and then considers that it regularly comes in at the 3rd or 4th best army in the world in a variety of defence institues' yearly rankings that speaks volumes (the armies coming above it invariably being many, many times larger). Man for man the British soldier is probably the equal of any nation in the world. However we have weaknesses. One tends to be equipment. We simply can't afford much of the technology the americans can and our assault rifles and radios have frankly been an national scandal for years. We also have limited projective capability and are in a near constant state of overstretch. We also enjoy benefits some other armies don't which in pat accounts for why the brits are good. One of these is Northern Ireland, grisly though that sounds. On top of that, with all the post colonial bush wars that have been going on since the end of WW2, the British army has seen more action post 1945 than any other modern army. British soldiers learn their trade on the streets the hard way to an extent that most other Western countries would find hard to match. This certainly helps us maintain excellent standards.

I would say British strength lies in fairly small scale low intensity operations. For something bigger we begin to suffer from overstretch and logistical problems. It is now reckoned that the British Army will never be able to put and keep a Corps sized formation in the field again, simply because we don't have the cash or the resources. We have limited resources. But what we do with them we tend to do damn well. That about sums it up really.

 

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The British have had more military operations since WW2 then the Americans? Are you sure on that one? Are you including paramilitary CIA operations?

 

[unmerged(904)]

Originally posted by StJaBa
The British have had more military operations since WW2 then the Americans? Are you sure on that one? Are you including paramilitary CIA operations?

Definately if you include the operations in Northern Ireland.

 

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Originally posted by Top Cat
Britain is not no 1 in everything military. It simply isn't. I love the army, I've got mates in the army and once I'm settled living somewhere for a good while I'll probably end up in the TA but to say we are the best at everything devalues the currency.

The British army is superb. When one considers the size of it and then considers that it regularly comes in at the 3rd or 4th best army in the world in a variety of defence institues' yearly rankings that speaks volumes (the armies coming above it invariably being many, many times larger). Man for man the British soldier is probably the equal of any nation in the world. However we have weaknesses. One tends to be equipment. We simply can't afford much of the technology the americans can and our assault rifles and radios have frankly been an national scandal for years. We also have limited projective capability and are in a near constant state of overstretch. We also enjoy benefits some other armies don't which in pat accounts for why the brits are good. One of these is Northern Ireland, grisly though that sounds. On top of that, with all the post colonial bush wars that have been going on since the end of WW2, the British army has seen more action post 1945 than any other modern army. British soldiers learn their trade on the streets the hard way to an extent that most other Western countries would find hard to match. This certainly helps us maintain excellent standards.

I would say British strength lies in fairly small scale low intensity operations. For something bigger we begin to suffer from overstretch and logistical problems. It is now reckoned that the British Army will never be able to put and keep a Corps sized formation in the field again, simply because we don't have the cash or the resources. We have limited resources. But what we do with them we tend to do damn well. That about sums it up really.

Now this actualy makes sense. Horay!!

 

[KingCharlesXII]

Originally posted by Williamtparis

Whose circles? I don't think anyone in the world would slag off the US Special Forces that knew anything about the training that they go through and the numerous missions that they HAVE accomplished SUCCESSFULLY. I don't think I'd queue in any line to tell a US Navy Seal that he was a joke.

In fact, you know what? Why compare Special Forces of nations that are as close as America and the UK? Both our nations would/and have die(d) for each other. If anything, let's hope that the special forces of the USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy all compliment each other.

So yes, I do have a #1 pick after all. NATO has the best Special Forces in the world. As the saying goes "Mess with the best, and you'll die like the rest..."

Thank you for already posting what I had come here to post. We think and feel alike! I really love what you said about the U.S. and UK because it is so very true, along with how successful U.S. special forces have been. U.S. and UK special forces have been active for decades all over the world, so why shouldn't they be the best of the best?!

 

[unmerged(5659)]

I was watching a documentary on the US special forces.

You watched a documentary about the US special forces did you? Capt Anson, all your knowledge comes from a damn book. Quit giving opinions if that is all you have to offer. All of your opinions about this 'magic challice' vision of Britain are based on facts (though often not credible) and figures gleaned from pages of some text. Capt Anson, have you landed on the shores of enemy territory to save POWs from a prison camp? Would you be brave enough to? The Navy Seals did twice in Vietnam. Would you be brave enough to go into the desert on minimal intel to attempt to save hostages in an embassy from a completely hostile populace? The Delta Force did. And I could quote again and again missions of bravery, of skill, of strategy that these men undertook without fear of pass or fail/ live or die.

What right do you have to laugh at these men while sitting in the comfort of your own house, probably on your bum in a big old easy chair munching crisps? Are you that shallow? You couldn't hack even a fortnight of the training these men go through. You want the right to say who is the best? Go and join one of these units. Train with them, fight with them, and come home (god-willing) with them -then and only then can you give an opinion about the best and the worst that the Special Forces has to offer.

Anyway im sorry for any strong defences because my blood boils when the Brit forces are criticized when they shouldent be.

Why? All you can manage to do is criticize other nations about everything. Whenever you put down America -our number one ally -you dishonour all of their soldiers (Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines) that died in defence of the UK in WWII. I know it may sound cliched, but we should NEVER forget the contribution in lives that they made. You disgrace them and our veterans with your silly baseless one-sided opinions.
In fact, why put down anyone at all? You show our weaknesses as British when all you can do is tout our superiority. You live up to every stereo-type that makes the rest of the world resent us. Why don't you try coming on to the history forum and saying something positive about other nations? Believe it or not, the United Kingdom is not the 'be all and end all' of nations on earth.

 

[unmerged(8505)]

U guys just talk about Brits and Americans.

Yes, the british SAS is one of the best in the world, they show what they can do, very good Special Force.

Navy Seals and Delta Force, everyone thinks they are good, becouse Americans do movies where one soldier can survive against 200, thats bull shit.
Example: Black Hawk Down, this dude run out when about 200-300 somalians with Ak-47 shoots at him, and cant hit, thats bull shit, sorry all Americans in here, but that is lies. Rent the movie and see for you selfs.

But in fact they are not good, Delta is geting better with years, but Navy Seals suck. Like someone said in this thread, they screw up, or lose more than half of their squad.

Gign9, was fomed after the killeng in Munchien. And is not so bad.

Russian Spetsnaz, is one of the most secret Special Forces in the world, no one knows much about them outside the Russian Federation and the old USSR countrys. They are very good, and never miss their targets, they have the best snipers in the world.

Then, no one said somthing about Russian UON. I dont know if thei ranks as Special Forces but i think they are an Anti-Terrorist Force.
I dont know much about them, but i think they did some missions in India (dont know why) and now is working in Kaukasus.

Dont know much about Polish Forces.

Nothing about Turkish Forces. Only their Missions in Iran.

I think Sweden have some type of Special Forces, that was trined by the British SAS, but i dont know their name. I know that they now work with SAS in Afghanistan.


Im not so in this Special Forces thing, but i told u guys what i know.
If u have somthing to say, feel free to send a message.
Peace Danny

 

[KingCharlesXII]

Originally posted by Danila
U guys just talk about Brits and Americans.

Yes, the british SAS is one of the best in the world, they show what they can do, very good Special Force.

Navy Seals and Delta Force, everyone thinks they are good, becouse Americans do movies where one soldier can survive against 200, thats bull shit.
Example: Black Hawk Down, this dude run out when about 200-300 somalians with Ak-47 shoots at him, and cant hit, thats bull shit, sorry all Americans in here, but that is lies. Rent the movie and see for you selfs.

But in fact they are not good, Delta is geting better with years, but Navy Seals suck. Like someone said in this thread, they screw up, or lose more than half of their squad.

Gign9, was fomed after the killeng in Munchien. And is not so bad.

Russian Spetsnaz, is one of the most secret Special Forces in the world, no one knows much about them outside the Russian Federation and the old USSR countrys. They are very good, and never miss their targets, they have the best snipers in the world.

Then, no one said somthing about Russian UON. I dont know if thei ranks as Special Forces but i think they are an Anti-Terrorist Force.
I dont know much about them, but i think they did some missions in India (dont know why) and now is working in Kaukasus.

Dont know much about Polish Forces.

Nothing about Turkish Forces. Only their Missions in Iran.

I think Sweden have some type of Special Forces, that was trined by the British SAS, but i dont know their name. I know that they now work with SAS in Afghanistan.


Im not so in this Special Forces thing, but i told u guys what i know.
If u have somthing to say, feel free to send a message.
Peace Danny

The Navy Seals suck? I'd like to see how much a man you are to stand up to one and tell him face to face! You have insulted Americans.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Originally posted by KingCharlesXII


The Navy Seals suck? I'd like to see how much a man you are to stand up to one and tell him face to face! You have insulted Americans.

Oh Jesus...

Please, stop that

 

[unmerged(8505)]

ok, thats what u think, becouse your goverment, your stupid president, that almost died by a COOCKIE, feed u and your whole (i like thouse Americans that knows the truth and that stand for the fact that U.S is not the best country in the world) nation with the bullshit, that u are best, everything u make is best. But that is not truth. Cant u people realize that United Statets of America is not better than Somalia or Russia, or Iraq, and that not all arabic counties, and their people is terrorists, u got terrorist in your own country, look at that dude that had bomb ih his shoe, he was American not arabic, not Russian, not Colombian.

So please stop this bullshit, AND OPEN YOUR EYES.

Peace Danny

 

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Originally posted by Danila
ok, thats what u think, becouse your goverment, your stupid president, that almost died by a COOCKIE, feed u and your whole (i like thouse Americans that knows the truth and that stand for the fact that U.S is not the best country in the world) nation with the bullshit, that u are best, everything u make is best. But that is not truth. Cant u people realize that United Statets of America is not better than Somalia or Russia, or Iraq, and that not all arabic counties, and their people is terrorists, u got terrorist in your own country, look at that dude that had bomb ih his shoe, he was American not arabic, not Russian, not Colombian.

So please stop this bullshit, AND OPEN YOUR EYES.

Am I the only one who found it quite amusing that something that agressive (It seems agressive) Was followed by this.

Peace Danny

 

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im not good in english, and i dont want to fight with people in this forum, i just say how i feel about thouse people that think that U.S is best, but i dont want to fight with them, i stand for my opinion, but no fights...

 

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A special forces-loving peacenik... Anyways, those Swedish special forces are called SSG (särskilda skyddsgruppen, Engl. Special Security Group). Peace!

 

[peo]

special forces

All special forces are about equal...
There are only very small differences in them.
Besides that is anyone here even close to beeing able to know of theese things when the most part of the special forces are secret, i know i'm not.

And for the swedish ssg they have been trained by both sas and the us, the SAS asked Sweden if we could send our SSG to Afghanistan
so someone at least thinks they are good

Paul Göransson

 

[Aetius]

This is a bit unrelated, but some of my friends have been stationed in northern Sweden "defending" the border against NATO (in Fjaelljaegarna). They are usually sent on counter-manouvers when NATO has its Artic training. What they actually do is save different NATO troops who get lost and wander over the border. They said that the American special forces have excellent equipment, very expensive and probably higher quality than the Swedish artic warfare stuff.
However when it comes to their training in Artic warfare, the soldiers would not survive very long on their own. But this is never a concern for US troops since they have an excellent airforce, electronic warfare equipment and search-and-rescue equipment.
I believe the special forces in different countries must be trained for different eventualities, the Swedish ones seem emphasise indepedent operation in small groups without support in hostile territory. I suppose this depends on the limited resources available to Sweden in case of war. I suppose the Swedish, Norweigan, Finnish and Russian special forces are probably better at artic survival than other special forces, if this is particularly practical I don't know though.
Is it really true that some armies train without live ammunition in training manouvers? In Sweden all conscripts do it a few times, nothing more fun than laying down covering fire with a machine gun

 

[unmerged(5659)]

I suppose the Swedish, Norweigan, Finnish and Russian special forces are probably better at artic survival than other special forces, if this is particularly practical I don't know though.

Aetius, I would say that it's absolutley practical. Let's face it, no nation can be the best at every situation. Isn't (other than numbers) one of the reasons for an alliance the use of combined arms and a military force that is able to specialise quickly at most everything and in most situations.

I bet it's true that Americans often need help finding their way in the Arctic, just as the Swedes would often need help finding their way through the Mohave Desert. I certainly wouldn't want to run astray of a Swedish, Finnish, or Norwegian Spec. Forces unit in mountainous or Alpine territory.

I think every nation has its speciality. Americans not only have the techno gadgets -they know how to use them to their advantage, just as the British use their training and regimen to their advantage, just as the Russians (Spetznaz) use their speciality (sorry don't know a lot about them, but would like to learn) to their advantage.

So really, rather than 'the best special forces in the world', this post should state ---> What's the best part of every nation's special forces units in the world?

For an example, you might say (notice I said might ): Arctic Maneuvers, the Swedish Special Forces are very good at operating successfully and fighting in Arctic environs.

 

[Emperor of Europe]

Originally posted by Williamtparis


So really, rather than 'the best special forces in the world', this post should state ---> What's the best part of every nation's special forces units in the world?

For an example, you might say (notice I said might ): Arctic Maneuvers, the Swedish Special Forces are very good at operating successfully and fighting in Arctic environs.

I couldn't agree more. No special force is really the jack of all trades AND no. 1. Take the recent action in Afghanistan as an example:

US special forces and the 10th US light infantry (mountain) division weren't that accustomed to the mountainous terrain. So in the end they called for British help from para units that specialized even more in mountain warfare.

Had the fight - on the other hand - been on terrain that US special forces were more used to, it might not have been necessary to involve anyone else.

So it's not a question of "who's best?", but "who's best when and where?"

Regards,

EoE

 

[maekh]

Re: special forces

Originally posted by peo
All special forces are about equal...
There are only very small differences in them.
Besides that is anyone here even close to beeing able to know of theese things when the most part of the special forces are secret, i know i'm not.

And for the swedish ssg they have been trained by both sas and the us, the SAS asked Sweden if we could send our SSG to Afghanistan
so someone at least thinks they are good

Paul Göransson

I didn't even know about SSG until some months ago.. Seems like the state has done good job keeping the SSG a secret until now..

Or maybe it is just me


-edit- I know nothing more but the word SSG about them.. does anyone have more information?

 

[unmerged(8505)]

I knew about SSG a long time ago, thats why i told this guys that Sweden have a pretty good SF team.....peace