Spanish Western Focus

[MWSampson]

Granada can't get western focus if it completes the expelling of Christians from the Iberian peninsula. How is that reasonable?

Make the capital of Castille/Portugal a potential for Western focus. That seems a small, but reasonable change to me...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes, though it requires expanding western focus to all non-primitives, not just Anatolian & higher.

 

[alertiu5]

Maybe just forming Andalusia could switch tech group to Western - would be less work to implement this.

 

[Castrolol]

Granada should really start as either western or Ottoman tech with muslim units.

Personally I'm not a fan at all of the magic button that is western focus, but if it's in the game there might as well be one in Spain.

 

[MWSampson]

Granada being Ottoman tech is a separate point, but one that I agree with.

I think the Andalusia formation isn't necessarily right either, though you are right that it would be a smaller change.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Maybe just forming Andalusia could switch tech group to Western - would be less work to implement this.

It would be even less work to avoid denying the western focus decision to most of the tech groups in the game. If western focus carries any justification whatsoever from a cost perspective, there is no rational way to claim that the barrier after Anatolian tech is consistent.

 

[Promanco]

Granada is more the exception than the rule for the Muslim Tech Group, I would not be ok with Morocco conquering Spain and getting insta Western Tech
What someone suggested about Andalusia Formation giving you Western Tech sound pretty good, that way is just for Granada but is still free Westernization.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Granada is more the exception than the rule for the Muslim Tech Group, I would not be ok with Morocco conquering Spain and getting insta Western Tech
What someone suggested about Andalusia Formation giving you Western Tech sound pretty good, that way is just for Granada but is still free Westernization.

In that case, don't make Spain give western focus, and just start Granada western. It wouldn't change how games play out in any meaningful capacity except (marginally) easing the difficulty of re-Reconquista.

However, my point that "western focus" decision being limited to Eastern/Anatolian tech is nonsense stands. If the ability to instantly shift tech group is plausible, then it follows that it is plausible to any nation that manages to actually conquer into Europe and sustain a presence there. Put the leadership of Adal in charge of historic Ottoman territory and have it conquer Wien, and it's hard to make a case that if such an absurdity happened, it would be implausible to do "western focus" while the Ottomans could have, whatever "western focus" means.

If Vijay or Korea find their way to Danzig, it's no less plausible that they'd be western than Perm doing it. From a balance perspective, disallowing weaker tech groups the decision is utter nonsense, so presumably the justification for Anatolian and higher only is historical...even though the button itself isn't historical .

 

[Promanco]

The reason why is only those two is because those two groups are ALREADY close to Western Technology therefore they don't have to make a giant leap to adapt to the times, someone in say the South American group is far FAR away from Western Tech and no single push would put them on par with the Westerners so they need the long process.
You can make a case for Muslims being able to do so but every other group has no room getting their flavor of Western Focus

 

[t6.28]

Western focus would really have to also be available for Muslim tech group, or there should at least be a quick and easy way to convert from Muslim to Anatolian tech group.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The reason why is only those two is because those two groups are ALREADY close to Western Technology therefore they don't have to make a giant leap to adapt to the times, someone in say the South American group is far FAR away from Western Tech and no single push would put them on par with the Westerners so they need the long process.
You can make a case for Muslims being able to do so but every other group has no room getting their flavor of Western Focus

That makes no sense. There was no nation where attempting to modernize was functionally costless ever (and among those that did, the surviving NA tribes were the closest, but were too small in number to oppose even after because they didn't do it until colonizers had trashed their civilization).

Claiming plausibility here is nonsense. Under any scenario where an Indian or Chinese tech nation holds Danzig or Wien, we are so far removed from real history that an assertion of realism on that decision is nothing but hindsight bias. It makes no sense that a nation holding the same territory couldn't in theory do the same thing.

Western focus would really have to also be available for Muslim tech group, or there should at least be a quick and easy way to convert from Muslim to Anatolian tech group.

All groups makes the most sense from a gameplay standpoint, noting of course that primitives can't possibly do it because they can't build ships.