Spanish Tercios

[saegoto]

Events for Spanish Tercios

conditions:
tag is SPA
is catholic
has province in italian region
mil tech level is 12 (~1550)

effect:
+10% infantry combat ability
+25% prestige from battles

event chains:

Spoiler

chain 1:
-10% infantry cost for 20 years
then
+10% cavalry cost for 20 years
then
+10 prestige
+10 land tradition

chain 2:
A: +5% infantry combat ability for 20 years
B: +10 legitimicy
then
if A:
A: -1 stability
B: +1 stability
then
if A
+100 military points

chain 3:
A: +10% army maintenence for 10 years
B: +10 prestige
then:
if A:
A: -1 land leader manuveur for 10 years
B: +5% morale for 10 years
then
if A:
5% discipline for 10 years

for 100 years (until gustavus adolfus army model developed)

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

If this were to be a thing I wouldn't want to see it that strong, spain is too often stomping around eating bits of france and north africa as it is, 10% infantry combat that early in the game makes a huge difference that would make spain an incredibly scary force.

 

[saegoto]

as ottomans are?

spain was land super power in europe until 30 years wars ended.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

as ottomans are?

spain was land super power in europe until 30 years wars ended.

They manage that fairly well without the 10% infantry, through inheritance. They might do with a few more missions like taking milan and better chance from the Burgundian inheritance, if you make them too strong they will just walk over europe happily, especially since they nerfed france so much in the last patch.

 

[Zelius]

as ottomans are?

spain was land super power in europe until 30 years wars ended.

How exactly do you define 'land super power'?

Anyway, they get +15% morale as Traditions and a little discipline.

 

[saegoto]

How exactly do you define 'land super power'?

spanish tercios was very famous and very, very effective over 100 years till battle of rocroi.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

spanish tercios was very famous and very, very effective over 100 years till battle of recroi.

does the 15% morale boost not cover this?

 

[Grand Historian]

Events for Spanish Tercios

conditions:
tag is SPA
is catholic
has province in italian region
mil tech level is 12 (~1550)

effect:
+10% infantry combat ability
+25% prestige from battles

event chains:

Spoiler

chain 1:
-10% infantry cost for 20 years
then
+10% cavalry cost for 20 years
then
+10 prestige
+10 land tradition

chain 2:
A: +5% infantry combat ability for 20 years
B: +10 legitimicy
then
if A:
A: -1 stability
B: +1 stability
then
if A
+100 military points

chain 3:
A: +10% army maintenence for 10 years
B: +10 prestige
then:
if A:
A: -1 land leader manuveur for 10 years
B: +5% morale for 10 years
then
if A:
5% discipline for 10 years

for 100 years (until gustavus adolfus army model developed)

I would just prefer to see Devout Catholicism get merged with the Spanish Inquisition idea (and reduced to +1 PI) and +10% Infantry Combat Ability made one of their ideas.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

I would just prefer to see Devout Catholicism get merged with the Spanish Inquisition idea (and reduced to +1 PI) and +10% Infantry Combat Ability made one of their ideas.

That would just make Spain massively OP, they are strong enough as it is.

 

[Grand Historian]

That would just make Spain massively OP, they are strong enough as it is.

Yeah +10% Infantry Combat Ability with no manpower bonus' after France unlocks Elan and starts with an army that can easily overwhelm the Spanish is massively OP.

They can get kicked senseless by France when it was the other way around historically (though much of the period). If you really want to talk about someone being massively OP, then approach Sweden.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Yeah +10% Infantry Combat Ability with no manpower bonus' after France unlocks Elan and starts with an army that can easily overwhelm the Spanish is massively OP.

They can get kicked senseless by France when it was the other way around historically (though much of the period). If you really want to talk about someone being massively OP, then approach Sweden.

There are already measures to reduce Sweden and their OP nature in the next patch, France are fine right now, by far the least OP they have been as long as I have played, their balance looks good if not too weak. In the last few games I have played the spanish have eaten into the south of france with relative ease, they don't need a big boost like that, I havent seen them have any major problems with manpower either, on the contrary I have seen the iberian powers then spain eat huge chunks of north africa since the redrawn seas updates.

 

[Grand Historian]

There are already measures to reduce Sweden and their OP nature in the next patch, France are fine right now, by far the least OP they have been as long as I have played, their balance looks good if not too weak. In the last few games I have played the spanish have eaten into the south of france with relative ease, they don't need a big boost like that, I havent seen them have any major problems with manpower either, on the contrary I have seen the iberian powers then spain eat huge chunks of north africa since the redrawn seas updates.

Unless if England stomps France, France usually runs haywire because of they no longer have to juggle their vassals and can easily ally many major powers. Manpower has always been a problem in Spain vs France, with France usually managing to nab parts of northern Aragon as a result of their ability to outlast Spanish Armies, and +10% Infantry Combat Ability as the fourth Spanish NI pales in comparison to France's +20% Manpower Tradition and +20% Land Morale 2nd Idea. Spain gets Discipline for their first idea, and +10% Infantry Combat Ability is basically +5% Discipline for infantry only without casualty reduction, but neither are extremely useful early game, whereas France's superior manpower and morale is. North Africa is not relevant to a Spain vs France discussion, but if it was then that would be historically accurate since the Spanish and Portuguese did indeed regularly kick around the North African Sultanates (granted, they only ended up taking key ports from them due to administrative constraints, but EU4 can't really model that much).

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Unless if England stomps France, France usually runs haywire because of they no longer have to juggle their vassals and can easily ally many major powers. Manpower has always been a problem in Spain vs France, with France usually managing to nab parts of northern Aragon as a result of their ability to outlast Spanish Armies, and +10% Infantry Combat Ability as the fourth Spanish NI pales in comparison to France's +20% Manpower Tradition and +20% Land Morale 2nd Idea. Spain gets Discipline for their first idea, and +10% Infantry Combat Ability is basically +5% Discipline for infantry only without casualty reduction, but neither are extremely useful early game, whereas France's superior manpower and morale is. North Africa is not relevant to a Spain vs France discussion, but if it was then that would be historically accurate since the Spanish and Portuguese did indeed regularly kick around the North African Sultanates (granted, they only ended up taking key ports from them due to administrative constraints, but EU4 can't really model that much).

It wasnt a discussion of france vs spain, it was a discussion of whether 10% infantry ability is viable or not, The Iberian powers are fine as they are, you are just supporting a ticket for them to keep on expanding through north africa towards egypt as they so regularly do in this patch, I am well aware of them securing trading ports but showing a large yellow north africa spreading to the point of them meeting the ottomans coming the other way looks rediculous when it happens almost all the time. I have seen far more of spanish powers taking land all the way over to Provence than I have seen france chewing into the iberian peninsular in the recent patches, which I'm yet to see, a few patches ago yes you would have been right but in the current state no.

 

[Grand Historian]

It wasnt a discussion of france vs spain, it was a discussion of whether 10% infantry ability is viable or not, The Iberian powers are fine as they are, you are just supporting a ticket for them to keep on expanding through north africa towards egypt as they so regularly do in this patch, I am well aware of them securing trading ports but showing a large yellow north africa spreading to the point of them meeting the ottomans coming the other way looks rediculous when it happens almost all the time. I have seen far more of spanish powers taking land all the way over to Provence than I have seen france chewing into the iberian peninsular in the recent patches, which I'm yet to see, a few patches ago yes you would have been right but in the current state no.

And I have seen plenty of the exact opposite, so I suspect we're simply not going to agree on this.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

And I have seen plenty of the exact opposite, so I suspect we're simply not going to agree on this.

I genuinely dont get how our results could be so different though, I see time and time again france being exhausted by English/Spanish/HRE alliance wars and continued punishment from each of its borders, against the expansionist safe powers of the iberians who almost always seem to have a happy little two/three way friendship and then wreck the less advanced nations on their doorsteps, the addition of the 10% army power would also make the redundant idea from portugal doing the same thing to resist the castillian onslaught. I just think while its a nice idea its too powerful. Perhaps a bonus from an event to give 0.5-1AT for 50-75 years would be more appropriate with softer bonuses but still recognise the teracos.

 

[Grand Historian]

I genuinely dont get how our results could be so different though, I see time and time again france being exhausted by English/Spanish/HRE alliance wars and continued punishment from each of its borders, against the expansionist safe powers of the iberians who almost always seem to have a happy little two/three way friendship and then wreck the less advanced nations on their doorsteps, the addition of the 10% army power would also make the redundant idea from portugal doing the same thing to resist the castillian onslaught. I just think while its a nice idea its too powerful. Perhaps a bonus from an event to give 0.5-1AT for 50-75 years would be more appropriate with softer bonuses but still recognise the teracos.

Personally, I would actually like a new unit type (Early Tercio) for them, but I digress. I suppose our results really just come down to who we play as, though.

 

[saegoto]

or lets do a disaster as ottoman jansennires

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Personally, I would actually like a new unit type (Early Tercio) for them, but I digress. I suppose our results really just come down to who we play as, though.

I would be quite happy with a few unique units for certain culture groups or countries but it might hamper performance a bit, there's a reason why the overhaul mods don't include them to much extent.

or lets do a disaster as ottoman jansennires

Janissary decadence, its already a thing??

 

[Zelius]

Janissary decadence, its already a thing??

Think he meant 'let [us have] a disaster [the same] as ottoman [janissary decadance]".

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Think he meant 'let [us have] a disaster [the same] as ottoman [janissary decadance]".

I thought the spanish overstretched themselves rather than lost the military edge leading to their decline, the losing of their military happened as administration took up too much resources instead of military investment.