Spanish Colonies

[Rudolf Hessbart]

In case Spain joined the war on the Axis side: Which territories do you think they would have claimed?

I think they would have wanted Gibraltar, Andorra, Pyrénées Orientales and all of the Basque country together with Morocco.
In africa they could claim Liberia? I am sure they would want Cuba. What do you think they would have claimed else?

 

[Damiani]

Franco did historically want to annex Portugal as well.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

Thank you.

Do you have a source? Btw. the Portuguese Colonies would have been annexed aswell, right?

 

[theJ]

Off the top of my head?
They'd want to reclaim their empire, surely?
I mean, sure, that ain't very specific, but that's where its charm comes from; no matter where the war takes them, be it africa, the americas, or even the far east, there'd always be "rightful" spanish lands for them to reclaim.

Of course, they'd start with Gibraltar.
Because eff Britain.

 

[BaReLy.]

They might want Philippines, and Cuba back too

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@off the top of my head?
They'd want to reclaim their empire, surely?
I mean, sure, that ain't very specific, but that's where its charm comes from; no matter where the war takes them, be it africa, the americas, or even the far east, there'd always be "rightful" spanish lands for them to reclaim.
Sure, but that's too much for one century, right I think they might have wanted to spread Falangism in these countries in South America. Maybe they would have wanted Liberia?

@they might want Philippines, and Cuba back too
And Guam, yeah the territorries they lost. Thanks

 

[Baldwin XI]

Perhaps they could convince Germany to give them Belgium and the Netherlands too, ending the 80 Years' War in a Spanish victory 400 years later?

I'm trying to think ahead to how national foci would be implemented for Spain, since I'd imagine that Republican Spain and Nationalist Spain would have VERY different focus trees.

 

[HenkieDePost]

Perhaps they could convince Germany to give them Belgium and the Netherlands too, ending the 80 Years' War in a Spanish victory 400 years later?

As a proud Dutchman and history student I do have to admit that I had to laugh about this comment but it also sent shivers down my spine hehe Although I hate the Spanish with a passion thanks to the 80 Years' War (and maybe, just maybe, because of the 2010 World Cup final) I must say that it would be a funny national focus 'joke' for Spain to retake their lands in the Low Countries. Something along the lines of the EU IV 'Defeat Saruhan and become the king of Gonder' joke with Aragon would be nice. I don't think we are gonna see this in the base game though

 

[Wildcat_PL]

Perhaps former spanish islands in carribbeans: cuba, jamaica, haiti, puerto rico, bahamas
in india: ceylon
everything east form india would go to japan for sure

some random islands: st. helena, cape verde, fernando poo, principe, azores, madera, falklands

depending on usa situation: florida, bermuda


it all depends on britain and usa terms of defeat, spain war involvement, spanish navy size perhaps...

 

[Red_warning]

Germany through the Habsburgs? Scandinavia through the goths?

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@perhaps they could convince Germany to give them Belgium and the Netherlands too,
I don't really think that they would want it I mean it's like asking France if they wanted India.

@Scandinavia through the goths?
The Goths settled in eastern Germany.

@Wildcat_PL
Yes, very likely. Thanks. But are you sure about Bermuda?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Somewhere in the beer-sodden, whore-numbed recesses I seem to remember Franco wanting at least part of Algeria as well and that being a major sticking-point in negotiations with Germany, who didn't want to piss off Vichy. However, it could be I'm remembering some counterfactual thing that never happened.

This has been a pretty useless post even by my standards.

 

[No idea]

Apart from Gibraltar, I think french Morocco would be a given, however, that would depend on Vichy France not existing. If it exists the only territory would be Gibraltar and, perhaps, some brithish african colony

 

[Baldwin XI]

I don't really think that they would want it I mean it's like asking France if they wanted India.

Poppycock! The Low Countries were a part of the Spanish Empire in the 16th Century and it was only a couple of lost wars (the 80 Years' War and the War of the Spanish Succession) that caused them to lose those lands. With possible revanchism by Franco, who's to say that Spain would not want to regain those rich lands (and possibly use them as a base to build a new armada against England)?

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

India was also once part of the French empire. But other than that they have nothing in common. Same goes with Spain and the Netherlands. Dutch Nationalism would be too strong anyways. Although they could puppet them, but why? The Netherlands is something Germany would like to annex.

 

[Wildcat_PL]

Yes, very likely. Thanks. But are you sure about Bermuda?

You know - this is only speculation on what they might be asking for. In every negotiation you make your demands bigger just to have something to fall back from.
Given the strategic position of bermuda (and also flaklands) gemany would keep it under direct ocupation. It all depends on usa situatoion and argentina/brazil situation.

 

[Rubidium]

The Spanish weren't actually insane; there was no desire to retake large swathes of European/American territory that had been lost over 100 years ago (the only exception being Gibraltar, which was sufficiently small, close and lightly populated that the British inhabitants could be drowned out by Spanish settlers).

Franco wanted Gibraltar (duh) and some of the French colonies (Morocco, maybe bits of Algeria), and his demands for the latter were at least partially intended to be unacceptable to Hitler (who wanted to cultivate Vichy France as a potential ally), thus providing an excuse for Spain to stay out of the war. A Franco who actually wanted to participate (rather than focusing on rebuilding Spain and sucking up to whoever wins the war) would probably be happy with Gibraltar and maybe Morocco.

Now, if the player wants to go on a grand Reconquista of Philip II's empire, keep in mind that as a fascist nation, Nationalist Spain has a freer hand in declaring wars, so they wouldn't need foci to do what they wanted to do.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@Rubidium
That is actually the best answer here. I really wihs I could give you more than a "Agree"

 

[Unknowed]

The Spanish weren't actually insane; there was no desire to retake large swathes of European/American territory that had been lost over 100 years ago (the only exception being Gibraltar, which was sufficiently small, close and lightly populated that the British inhabitants could be drowned out by Spanish settlers).

Franco wanted Gibraltar (duh) and some of the French colonies (Morocco, maybe bits of Algeria), and his demands for the latter were at least partially intended to be unacceptable to Hitler (who wanted to cultivate Vichy France as a potential ally), thus providing an excuse for Spain to stay out of the war. A Franco who actually wanted to participate (rather than focusing on rebuilding Spain and sucking up to whoever wins the war) would probably be happy with Gibraltar and maybe Morocco.

I'm from Spain and I couldn't agree more with what you said , Franco indeed wanted Gibraltar (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputa_territorial_de_Gibraltar, "Durante la década de 1960, Francisco Franco exigió la soberanía de la colonia") and maybe Morocco, but as you said there was no desire to retake large swathes of land or restore the empire, in fact Franco technically is not even fascist, he received political help from the falangist to raise to the power, but his ideology was not fascist at all, at some point he even killed the falagist leaders. Franco was Fraquist (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franquismo) and his dictatorship was not a facist one, but a typical militaristic one.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

but his ideology was no fascist at all

It depends. He has a National Syndicalist like Mussolini. Falangism and Fascism are versions of National Syndicalism.

What do you think republican spain claimed?