Spanish Civil War length adjustment

[Emperorheinrich]

Whenever I play Hearts of Iron III, I watch the progress of the Spanish Civil War out of the corner of my eye. In over a dozen games I have never once seen the war last more than a year. Sometimes the nationalists win, sometimes the republicans, but it always seems to end very quickly. Are there plans to address this issue in Hearts of Iron IV?

 

[Blecky]

Why do you expect this result when so many game mechanics are changed? AFAIK this is not going to be HoI III with some additional features.

 

[keynes2.0]

I think he expects it because the devs haven't discussed any features to avoid it yet.

 

[eleetsdier]

I don't really see this as a problem specific to the Spanish Civil War. Wars in general (in HOI3) did not last very long unless it was an absolute stalemate. Hopefully the battle plan system will slow own advances a bit.

 

[Wyrm]

The speed of wars have much to do with divisions moving too fast.

 

[Opanashc]

Problem, as I see it, is all those units that are left in Spanish colonies. Depending on who gets them and the navy, the other side usually wins. SPA gets 55% of all units SPR has, but navy and colonial troops are not used by either side, and only troops that are on the Iberian matter. If half the units one side gets are not used by the AI to fight the war, then they are useless.

 

[Kung Zog]

The speed of wars have much to do with divisions moving too fast.

Indeed.

The thing with SCW is that it had the chance to go quickly, both a sudden Republican as a quick military, but once the fronts stabalised and foreign supplies and troops really started to arrive it would be a long outdrawn affair.

 

[Victor Cortez]

In the latest trailer they mentioned the Spanish civil war and said how "useful" it can be for other countries.

 

[potski]

In the latest trailer they mentioned the Spanish civil war and said how "useful" it can be for other countries.

That will be for GER, ITA and SOV to gain combat experience. Doesn't mean it will not be over fairly quickly.

 

[Victor Cortez]

That will be for GER, ITA and SOV to gain combat experience. Doesn't mean it will not be over fairly quickly.

True, but:

1) If they put it in a trailer, I suppose they're giving it more importance. Also, if you need to gain combat experience maybe they have to find a way for the war to last longer.
2) If HOI4 is more sandbox and less scripted, maybe other countries can intervene more in Spain? Maybe France can aquire more experience and have better equipment when the war with Germany comes?

 

[Axe99]

Whenever I play Hearts of Iron III, I watch the progress of the Spanish Civil War out of the corner of my eye. In over a dozen games I have never once seen the war last more than a year. Sometimes the nationalists win, sometimes the republicans, but it always seems to end very quickly. Are there plans to address this issue in Hearts of Iron IV?

I had more than a few SCW's drag on more than a year (playing un-modded over various DLC), so it does happen. That said, how it'll work in HoI4, as others have said, is anyone's guess.

 

[Kung Zog]

I had more than a few SCW's drag on more than a year (playing un-modded over various DLC), so it does happen. That said, how it'll work in HoI4, as others have said, is anyone's guess.

the thing is that it lasted almost three years.

I think increasing the difficulty and supply coast of offensives would help. More time would be build up time so to speak. Might also work great for Chinese Civil War and the Sino-Japanese war.

 

[Axe99]

the thing is that it lasted almost three years.

I think increasing the difficulty and supply coast of offensives would help. More time would be build up time so to speak. Might also work great for Chinese Civil War and the Sino-Japanese war.

I agree wars are a bit easy to rip through quickly - as eleetsdier mentions, hopefully the Battle Plan system will slow things down a bit. I have had the Spanish Civil War go into 1938 on a few occasions, so it does happen, but definitely agree it generally winds up a good deal quicker than actually occurred.

 

[Darkath]

I think he expects it because the devs haven't discussed any features to avoid it yet.

IIRC they mentionned that other countries will have a more impactful way of meddling with that war. I guess if USSR, UK, France or Germany actually send weapons, or even expeditionary forces on either side of the the war, it could drag on a lot.

I'd also like to see the possibility of the SCW, or the Sino-Japanese war, being the starting point of the WWII, instead of poland or czechoslovakia. For instance if foreign countries increase more and more their support for either side of the conflict it could escalate into full scale war between those countries, and drag other with them.

 

[potski]

Problem, as I see it, is all those units that are left in Spanish colonies. Depending on who gets them and the navy, the other side usually wins. SPA gets 55% of all units SPR has, but navy and colonial troops are not used by either side, and only troops that are on the Iberian matter. If half the units one side gets are not used by the AI to fight the war, then they are useless.

There was a further problem with the random splitting if the units between the two sides. You could be Nat. Spain and have some Divs in Republican territory. They would capture the province they were in but you would be surrounded by Republican territory and cut off from supplies.

This should have been fixed in FTM, when you could have an Event/Decision which loaded up a specific OOB. This could have been used to make sure that each side had their historic dispositions when the SCW broke out. And further events could have introduced the Militias, including the International Brigades, as well as the foreign forces which intervened.

 

[Secret Master]

One thing HOI3 is really bad at modeling is stalemates. It isn't just Spain. In every iteration of HOI3, either China defeats Japan in two years, or Japan conquers China in two years.

There are several reasons why (it's not just division speed), but I remain optimistic that some new systems will make it harder to maintain offensives for years at a time.

 

[Kung Zog]

One thing HOI3 is really bad at modeling is stalemates. It isn't just Spain. In every iteration of HOI3, either China defeats Japan in two years, or Japan conquers China in two years.

There are several reasons why (it's not just division speed), but I remain optimistic that some new systems will make it harder to maintain offensives for years at a time.

If supply use is increased a lot during battles combined with worse repair rate for infra one might get an ebb-flood pace to advances. Hopefully!

 

[Kovax]

There was a further problem with the random splitting if the units between the two sides. You could be Nat. Spain and have some Divs in Republican territory. They would capture the province they were in but you would be surrounded by Republican territory and cut off from supplies.

That was only half of the problem. The event had two parts: the first part divided up existing divisions between the two sides, while the second part added more units in specific locations. Whoever controlled the province where they were placed got the additional troops. In several cases, the provinces where those additional troops were placed could end up in either country's hands, which meant that they could not only randomly get those units initially in the other side's province, along with the province, but get the additional troops intended for the other side as well.

I saw one SCW where the Republicans ended up with the airfield province where the Nationalist air units appear (Ferrol, or La Coruna?), so the Republicans got BOTH sides' airforces. The initial land combat went nicely for the Nationalists, but constant bombardment demolished and continued to suppress every single on-board IC point they had, as well as reducing the infrastructure of the cities to 0, so it took close to forever to repair. The Nationalists managed to capture all but the one Republican VP location (Mercia?), but eventually practically every unit ran out of supply completely, as well as reinforcements, losing any ability to advance or recover damage. When I checked, they were up to almost 20 Revolt Risk, totally out of Supplies, and unable to produce enough to cover even half of requirements, even without diverting anything to deal with the RR. The handful of remaining Republican units simply brushed them aside and took everything back without a fight. That was all due to air power based on an offshore island for part of the time. The Republicans won after almost 2 years, roughly 17-18 months of fighting and another 5-6 months of just advancing to take over the practically uncontested provinces, aside from the numerous Rebel spawns.

Another game ended up with several major Republican provinces going to the Nationalists, and about a quarter of the intended Republican army being added to the Nationalists instead. That turned into a Nationalist cakewalk and ended in under a month.

 

[Clueless636]

IIRC they mentionned that other countries will have a more impactful way of meddling with that war. I guess if USSR, UK, France or Germany actually send weapons, or even expeditionary forces on either side of the the war, it could drag on a lot.

I'd also like to see the possibility of the SCW, or the Sino-Japanese war, being the starting point of the WWII, instead of poland or czechoslovakia. For instance if foreign countries increase more and more their support for either side of the conflict it could escalate into full scale war between those countries, and drag other with them.

Everything you said is a cool/amazing idea

 

[RagingCroppy]

...I'd also like to see the possibility of the SCW, or the Sino-Japanese war, being the starting point of the WWII, instead of poland or czechoslovakia. For instance if foreign countries increase more and more their support for either side of the conflict it could escalate into full scale war between those countries, and drag other with them.

I was just thinking this. Would be great to see.