Spain vs. France in Land Battles - Ouch!

[Illianor123]

France is known as the Big Blue Blob or the Final Boss.
France is difficult, evening if you know what you are doing.
Just defend in mountains and try to farm army tradition against the North Africans or Americans so you can get equal generals.
Forced March is the Offensive finisher. And Offensive also gives discipline and better generals and is all rounds a solid idea.

 

[FreeSoc]

If you ally with Burgundy and then proceed to go all-out on France within the first 10 years of the game, by forcing them to cancel their vassals and then (in successive wars) forcing them to release nations like Guyenne, then you can take them out. France only gets stronger as time goes on, so the sooner you kill them off, the better.

 

[marceror]

Is there a resource that explains the relative strengths and weaknesses of the major countries in the game?

You know, something that says which factions have the strong infantry, navies, colonial potential, and so forth.

 

[ahyangyi]

Is there a resource that explains the relative strengths and weaknesses of the major countries in the game?

You know, something that says which factions have the strong infantry, navies, colonial potential, and so forth.

Yes. It's called National Ideas. You can look at them in game at your "Idea" panel for your own country, and at the light bulb icon for other countries.

Of course, you also look at the map since geographical situation is also part of the strengths and weaknesses. For example Spain has Pyrenees (great defensive potential) and Canaries (so you are closest to the New World).

For an external source on national ideas, check http://www.eu4wiki.com/National_ideas .

 

[Dorevai]

I prefer not to chase the french army past the pyrenees. That's never worked out for me. If I successfully take Bearn I move my operation over to Dauphine and Provence. Dauphine is mountains iirc, and if they've taken Savoy, they've got more mountains. Let them keep rushing my position. Once their WE is like 8+ I might chase them around the interior.

 

[BoleslavLev]

Just ally them, then they will suck and lose war to some German OPM which would have emperor or Hansa on his side.

 

[MAHak]

Also later in the game France will usually have some colonies, where you can "trap" some armies using your presumably superior navy.

 

[AlphaSonic]

A couple of things here. This is my first time playing EUIV, so how the hell was I supposed to know that? Furthermore, my intent has never been to destroy France. For my first game I have been focused on colonizing rather than taking on major European powers. The colonization game is going well, except for the fact that my colonies keep pulling me into wars with France.

Sorry, it sounded really bad, what I wanted to say is that if you want to destroy France you have to do it early, or wait to late game when you have more military ideas.

 

[hitchens]

If AI Austria can beat France......

 

[oblio-]

The AI is probably better than a first time player

 

[Aries666]

Early game France can be beaten by anyone with the right allies. If you want to take on mid/late game France in a fight when you aren't kicking them whilst they are down, you need to be aware of a few things:

Lucky nation - +1 general stats, +1 leader, +33% manpower recovery
Always takes offensive and defensive (usually early) - +2 general stats, + morale, +discipline, +manpower and recovery
Military NI's - +manpower, +morale, +discipline
Perpetually high army tradition and prestige - + general stats, +manpower and recovery, +morale
As of 1.8 +discipline increase military tactics

Mid/late game French manpower will likely be 100-200k meaning they can regenerate an unmodified 10-20k men a year so you need to be doing >30k damage every year just to dent their manpower. French income will be >200/month meaning once their manpower is drained they can support 50-100% their FL in mercs.

If you want to beat France in a fair fight you need to match or exceed them in most of these areas:

Take offensive and defensive in addition take innovative (this will keep your AT high without being at war all the time), I would also take quality or quantity depending on manpower but generally quality for the extra discipline + discipline policy (stacking as much discipline as possible really helps). Re-roll generals to get 5+ fire/shock. Stack as much manpower as possible by taking other lands such as Portugal and Italy this will also increase your regeneration rate increasing your staying power. Save up a wad of cash incase you need mercs. Get your army composition right smth like 20/4/16 inf/cav/art for a 40k stack, ideally you want 4-5 of these minimum and always keep them close to one another for reinforcement.

In a Tunisia game I had to fight France for one of the provinces in the achievement, I spent 100 years conquering the Ottomans (they started it) to increase my manpower and income and stacked discipline to 127%, needless to say they lost badly.

All this said it is much easier to either wipe or ally France early than to let them grow to the point where this is required.

 

[Aries666]

Is there a resource that explains the relative strengths and weaknesses of the major countries in the game?

You know, something that says which factions have the strong infantry, navies, colonial potential, and so forth.

you can look them up on the wiki but generally:

top tier land powers: France, Brandenburg (if they are allowed to grow), Ottomans, Russia
mid tier land powers: Spain, Burgundy, Austria (though all of these got buffed in the last patch
everyone else

Naval powers: Spain, Portugal, England, Ottomans, Venice (if fighting in the med)

Best colonisers: Spain and Portugal by far, England/France/Netherlands a distant 2nd

Best traders: Spain, Portugal, the Hansa, Venice, Burgundy/Netherlands (I put these together as they both occupy the lowlands) , England

Of course this isn't an exhaustive list and is Eurocentric, many countries outside of Europe could be considered in any of these lists in the hands of a good player but in the hands of the AI not so much.

 

[Pro]

Suddenly being attacked by a 40k frech death stack with no warning because you got no notification when your enemy allied france 5 years into the war is the most fun experience in this game.

 

[atwix]

I hear attacking the French in the Pyrennees across a river without a general is a surefire way to win every war!

For extra success lower your maintenance to 0%.

this says it all. If you are near France, destroy France while they are still in their hundred years war, or its too late.

 

[Aries666]

Suddenly being attacked by a 40k frech death stack with no warning because you got no notification when your enemy allied france 5 years into the war is the most fun experience in this game.

I got caught out like this last night, declared on Ferrara (I'm Venice), they call Austria who is allied with Bavaria, Naples and some minors, which is fine. 6 months later Austria has allied and called in Spain (highest FL in my game), Bohemia, Hungary and Prussia, adding some 400k men to their side. I was under the impression you cant make alliances whilst at war. Anyway me, vassal Serbia, Byz, Mentese, Syria, Milan, East Frisia, and Najd + allies France and Russia won a closely fought war after 10 years, it was supposed to be a quick smash and grab!

 

[atwix]

I prefer not to chase the french army past the pyrenees. That's never worked out for me. If I successfully take Bearn I move my operation over to Dauphine and Provence. Dauphine is mountains iirc, and if they've taken Savoy, they've got more mountains. Let them keep rushing my position. Once their WE is like 8+ I might chase them around the interior.

pretty sure they changed all mountain provinces in France to hills.

 

[nalfz]

You've really got to play the diplomatic game with france. The old "get a bunch of dudes and attack them" won't hold water. Make sure you're on good terms with their rivals. Austria's great if the burgundian inheritance fired, burgundy's great if it didn't. Sometimes the denmark-norway-sweden union sticks around, they can make for a good ally, and some little ones like switzerland or savoy will tend to hate france and help you out in wars
If you attack them alone you're gonna lose. If you initiate the battles, you will lose. Let them charge a stack into your allies' units and then run after them and reinforce

 

[Beagá]

I prefer not to chase the french army past the pyrenees. That's never worked out for me. If I successfully take Bearn I move my operation over to Dauphine and Provence. Dauphine is mountains iirc, and if they've taken Savoy, they've got more mountains. Let them keep rushing my position. Once their WE is like 8+ I might chase them around the interior.

Ideally you only chase the AI when their manpower is zero. Stupid to go if they will have reinforced, while you sucked tons of attrition. Or even worse - are ready to reinforce the main stack in the middle of a battle.

But ultimatedly to win wars, even versus France, you must aim to destroy stacks. It´s a major blow regarding gold AND manpower - 20k of MP wiped is a serious blow for everyone before 1600.

 

[windwalker14]

Since this is your first time playing EU IV, Welcome
Two, as first time player taking on France and winning 3 times is fantastic. First time playing I chose Castille and France kicked by butt big time, So congrats on game

Three, I beat France with choosing Terrain and river crosses as my friend, I choose when to have the war, Always when they are at war with somebody else, (given time France will get into a major war) and I bring in an ally, Burgendy, Austria.
One of my favorite time is during 100 years war if I can ally Burg, or Austria or both and attack them ( but Aragon may backstab you ). Yes, i go into debt due to letting Mercs take alot of damage first. You dont pay maintence on nonexistant troops.

Timing on when you chose to attack is important, if early I go for admin idea group ( name forget ) that offers 1st idea that reduces merc cost and third idea reduce merc maintence cost.( 2nd idea reduces coring cost by 25%) so good all way around.

if attacking later have a mil tech is recommended ( this one always debatable ) but Offensive offers March as last idea. Ultra nice to stack wipe or save your troops with reinforcement Now. Never take mil idea as first idea group as first few mil techs are to good to pass up.

If the Burg Inheritance fires, Austria can handle a lot ( not all from my experience) of France. Very good anti France Call to Arms nation. My best success's are with allies Portugual, England, Austria.

When my goal is to destroy them, I always release vassals and nations over taking lands. I can take their vassals land later. Goal is to reduce their insane manpower and manpower recovery speed.

As said by others before, bait them into attacking in the mountains with your army size big enough to survive, because you cannot have your reserves attack until 1 day before frances troops arrive or France will stop their troop advance. Savoy is another area with mountains that is good to bait them to.

Since this is your first game and with 3 france wins under your belt, I am expecting you to write this soon

 

[in heaven]

France is known as the Big Blue Blob or the Final Boss.
France is difficult, evening if you know what you are doing.
Just defend in mountains and try to farm army tradition against the North Africans or Americans so you can get equal generals.
Forced March is the Offensive finisher. And Offensive also gives discipline and better generals and is all rounds a solid idea.

Spoiler

They are very hard to play against.. And if you leave them alone they will blob to even bigger sizes with 0 AE.. In my current multiplayer session they have 9.1 morale 110 discipline, best generals and insane amounts of troops. Still crushed him.