Spain vs. France in Land Battles - Ouch!

[marceror]

Is it possible for Spain to go toe to toe with France in land battles? France is pretty much tearing through my troops like warm butter.

They have vastly superior morale... seems like due mostly to an "Elan" trait that I see on their combat statistics. They also seem to invariably have amazing generals with sixes in their attack traits (attack, shock).

When the battle kicks off they consistently get great die rolls. With similar numbers they do way more damage than me and even if I have a numbers advantage they kick my butt.

I notice they have better discipline and appear to have taken offensive boosts for their army. I did not. I boosted quality. At any rate, they also have higher discipline which seems to be working against me. I'm careful to avoid crossing rivers or fight them on unfavorable land, but even still that's not proving to be enough. Further, they are constantly doing this forced march thing that seems to get them everywhere they need to be before I can catch up.

I'm killing them in the waters hands down, but it rather feels like suicide to engage them on land. Anyone have any good strategies for taking on France as Spain?

 

[AlphaSonic]

Spain has the same discipline and 15% morale. What's more. Spain has 15% morale and 5% discipline before France gets Elan. You should've destroyed them earlier.

 

[Rey]

The classic strategy, first defend against them in the Pirineos mountains. Leave a smaller army to lure them into attacking and then reinforce. Just make sure the bait army is big enough to hold until reinforced! Have a good general. After you win and they break, chase them through France and destroy them.

 

[Tom013]

Have you tried the Pyrenees?

 

[Olligarchy]

I hear attacking the French in the Pyrennees across a river without a general is a surefire way to win every war!

For extra success lower your maintenance to 0%.

 

[Rey]

i hear attacking the french in the pyrennees across a river without a general is a surefire way to win every war!

For extra success lower your maintenance to 0%.

 

[Incompetent]

Lucky AI France tends to get very good generals, firstly due to 'luck' and secondly because they keep their army tradition high by fighting lots of wars. It's best not to start a war unless you either have good generals of your own or a significant numerical advantage. If you have to fight, let them come to you and wear them down, using mercs to conserve your manpower. (Thankfully Spain has fairly good defensive terrain, unlike France.)

 

[Nassau]

Attack them when they are in another war and most of their troops are already fighting. Then sneak-attack them.

 

[marceror]

I hear attacking the French in the Pyrennees across a river without a general is a surefire way to win every war!

For extra success lower your maintenance to 0%.

Right, because they'll be so intimidated by my brazenness that they'll figure I'm just killing time until my dragon horde swoops in from the sky to decimate them all. It could just work! I mean, no one would do those things unless they had a hoard of dragons on en route, right?

In all seriousness, thanks for the responses so far.

Spain has the same discipline and 15% morale. What's more. Spain has 15% morale and 5% discipline before France gets Elan. You should've destroyed them earlier.

A couple of things here. This is my first time playing EUIV, so how the hell was I supposed to know that? Furthermore, my intent has never been to destroy France. For my first game I have been focused on colonizing rather than taking on major European powers. The colonization game is going well, except for the fact that my colonies keep pulling me into wars with France.

Of the three wars I've fought with them to date, I have one them all. But they have rather felt like phyric victories.

The classic strategy, first defend against them in the Pirineos mountains. Leave a smaller army to lure them into attacking and then reinforce. Just make sure the bait army is big enough to hold until reinforced! Have a good general. After you win and they break, chase them through France and destroy them.

That was my strategy in one of my 3 wars. It didn't go as well as I'd hoped, but I think that was largely due to the fact that between France and her European allies I was outnumbered. I had more than 100k troops in the area, but they ended up bringing a good 20% - 30% more than me. And even when the fight finally did go down, their general was so superior to mine that the negatives for attacking on a mountain were pretty much negated. And my army's morale plummeted. The only saving grace in that war was the fact that my colonies in the Americas completely decimated everything France and the Netherlands had in range. And I made sure the entire French mainland was well blockaded (did I mention I have serious naval superiority?).

So technically I won, and managed to take home a few colonial provinces... that were essentially worthless.

The most effective strategy I've used so far has been to keep my soldiers back and just let France siege my provinces. I win by taking out their navies and letting my colonies run rampant on theirs. My colonies are at least 10x more powerful than theirs, since colonization is what I've pretty much been focused on since the beginning of the game. While I take negatives... those have been outweighed by all of the victories by my side. But even still, letting my lands get ravaged doesn't exactly feel like a heroic battle strategy.

 

[marceror]

Attack them when they are in another war and most of their troops are already fighting. Then sneak-attack them.

I haven't had the luxury of timing these wars, since my colonies are the ones starting them. That said, my second of 3 wars occurred while France was knee-deep in a war with the HRE. I actually managed to get Narbonne for myself in that one. But it was purely dumb luck that the war with HRE was underway.

 

[winsingtonIII]

I think the real issue is that you took Quality as your first military idea. Quality really isn't that good as a first military idea, it's decent in the late game, but in the early game you want to either go Offensive or Defensive, generally.

I personally find that if you start close to France, Defensive is actually really good because you get +15% morale from it, putting you more on par with France with their Elan. That said, Offensive will make your leaders better and closer to what France has, and the improved discipline should help as well.

 

[sgt.stickybomb]

You think they are tough to fight as Spain? try fighting as Portugal.

 

[Autoclave]

Fight French like Russian fought Napoleon = never actually fight them, scorch earth and let the attrition erode their ranks.
You can compensate some lack of Morale with Defender of faith or an advisor.

Only full millitaristic ideas Prussia can wipe the floor with French on equal grounds, the rest of the nations should outsmart Frenchmen if they want to win.

 

[Denkt]

France got a powerful army but Spain is better at colonization and navy.
You can just get them in the late game with a way better income then they, with your massive global empire.

I think the real issue is that you took Quality as your first military idea. Quality really isn't that good as a first military idea, it's decent in the late game, but in the early game you want to either go Offensive or Defensive, generally.

I personally find that if you start close to France, Defensive is actually really good because you get +15% morale from it, putting you more on par with France with their Elan. That said, Offensive will make your leaders better and closer to what France has, and the improved discipline should help as well.

Defensive is great early game but of doubful value later on compared to other military ideas.
Spain best military idea is probably quantity just because of the policy you can get.
Religious, Quality, Quantity can get you 2.5 disiciple, 20% moral and 5% moral recovery, but Im not so sure you would want to pick religious and Quality, likely better to focus on colonisation and defeat the enemy with economy, instead of quality.

Best ideas to focus on as Spain is probably, Exploration, Expansion, Quantity, Administrative.
The 3 policies you want activated with this combo will give you 40 extra colonist growth per year, 5% colonist chance and an extra colonist giving you a total of 5 colonists as Spain and the coloniese will grow so fast with over a 100 per year in base growth and even faster with colonist at the colony, the new world will soon be Spanish.
This idea combo will grant 50% bigger naval force limit, cheap core and mercs that you can fuel your enormous income into, the large force limit allow you to have a army more in France size.
CB on asia will make it easy to get that trade and big bonuses from trade companies so asia is yours to.

 

[Incompetent]

Fight French like Russian fought Napoleon = never actually fight them, scorch earth and let the attrition erode their ranks.

Or like how the Spanish fought Napoleon, for that matter.

 

[Beagá]

Uh... how they have better Discipline? France usually goes defensive first.

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

I hear attacking the French in the Pyrennees across a river without a general is a surefire way to win every war!

For extra success lower your maintenance to 0%.

11/10 strategy. I can confirm this works. ^_^

 

[oblio-]

Right, because they'll be so intimidated by my brazenness that they'll figure I'm just killing time until my dragon horde swoops in from the sky to decimate them all. It could just work! I mean, no one would do those things unless they had a hoard of dragons on en route, right?

In all seriousness, thanks for the responses so far.


A couple of things here. This is my first time playing EUIV, so how the hell was I supposed to know that? Furthermore, my intent has never been to destroy France. For my first game I have been focused on colonizing rather than taking on major European powers. The colonization game is going well, except for the fact that my colonies keep pulling me into wars with France.

Of the three wars I've fought with them to date, I have one them all. But they have rather felt like phyric victories.




That was my strategy in one of my 3 wars. It didn't go as well as I'd hoped, but I think that was largely due to the fact that between France and her European allies I was outnumbered. I had more than 100k troops in the area, but they ended up bringing a good 20% - 30% more than me. And even when the fight finally did go down, their general was so superior to mine that the negatives for attacking on a mountain were pretty much negated. And my army's morale plummeted. The only saving grace in that war was the fact that my colonies in the Americas completely decimated everything France and the Netherlands had in range. And I made sure the entire French mainland was well blockaded (did I mention I have serious naval superiority?).

So technically I won, and managed to take home a few colonial provinces... that were essentially worthless.

The most effective strategy I've used so far has been to keep my soldiers back and just let France siege my provinces. I win by taking out their navies and letting my colonies run rampant on theirs. My colonies are at least 10x more powerful than theirs, since colonization is what I've pretty much been focused on since the beginning of the game. While I take negatives... those have been outweighed by all of the victories by my side. But even still, letting my lands get ravaged doesn't exactly feel like a heroic battle strategy.

For heroic battles you need to wait some more. Military ideas (Offensive, Quality, Defensive, Aristocratic) + Innovative and a lot of mercenaries should do the trick.

If you want land power, get something with land ideas: Sweden, Brandenburg, Poland.

Also ignore the trolls. Beating France in your first EU4 game is a feat few have done (even though they may claim otherwise ).

 

[Pugman]

As Spain/Castile you either destroy France or ally them (and keep relations improved). There is no other option.

 

[Tijean]

Currently playing as burgundy and I was able to beat France several time.