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Latheloi

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A slowdown (plus, perhaps a small speed up for CN's) in general, plus either not being able to colonise from a distant overseas province, or doing so being slower would make a big difference.

Would mean, at most, the western colonisers would do the coastline of eastern siberia, and any inland expansion would be unlikely.

It would also be good if natives weren't an auto-wipe out unless you have troops stationed, in which case they do nothing. Instead options involving high cost, small slow-down or vice-versa.
 

Sparhafoc

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Having fought and won a war against Super Denmark in the 1550s for who would control Muscovy. In 1620 I begin to integrate Muscovy, who continues to happily expand its colonies in Siberia. In 1630 I finish this monumental task as the Commonwealth. And what to my eyes should I see, Spain is building colonies in the Kamchatka Penninsula, having done a fine job colonizing all of North America.

WTH?

Happens every game. The only time I don't see Spain in East Asia is when they've had their behinds kicked - usually by me.

Personally, I think there needs to be more proto-nations in Eastern Asia to resolve both this and the problem of Russia starting colonizing the Pacific in the 17th century.
 

brifbates

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I've said more than once that colony range from overseas holdings needs to be cut out. That right there would greatly slow down the Iberians into silly places and whole world by 1650 issues. If it gives Russia too much of a head start they can add in stronger penalties for settling the arctic wilds of Siberia...
 

Niebulheim

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I think he problem is that there are simply too few colonial provinces. Apart from Eastern America, the Caribbean and Mexico, most places have absolutely massive province sizes.

1) Midwest and southern America. Increase the number of provinces and lower base tax.

2) Canada. The provinces are friggin massive! Each one is almost twice as big as Ireland.

3) South Africa. I would love too see more provinces here.

4) Give players and the ai a better reason to stop by in Indonesia. Borneo is bigger than France, but only has 5 provinces.

5) Argentina and southern Brazil could definitely have more provinces.

I'm not sure what will get changed in The Art of War, but I think this would fix some issues of over-colonizing.
 

Closet Skeleton

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I think he problem is that there are simply too few colonial provinces. Apart from Eastern America, the Caribbean and Mexico, most places have absolutely massive province sizes.

Massive provinces make perfect sense there. Adding more would imply that there were lots of cities there, when often there was a small outpost and a fort literally controlling miles and miles.
 

No idea

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Having fought and won a war against Super Denmark in the 1550s for who would control Muscovy. In 1620 I begin to integrate Muscovy, who continues to happily expand its colonies in Siberia. In 1630 I finish this monumental task as the Commonwealth. And what to my eyes should I see, Spain is building colonies in the Kamchatka Penninsula, having done a fine job colonizing all of North America.

WTH?

The problem is, imho, colonization happens too fast, too early. Being in Kamchatka would have been plausible IF the spanish had reached Alaska in 1600, after all, Kamchtaka is not so far from Alaska, but Alaska was reached by the spanish, and only its southermost parts, late in the xviii century, while the russians reached Kamchtaka late during the xvi century, iirc. So, the problem is not really unplausability, but a mechanic thta makes colonization too fast and too early. They have tweaked that part and it is not as bad as it was in eu III, but it is still wrong. On top of that, it makes the late game (1700 onwards) feel like if there was nothing else to do, as most of the world is already colonized.
 

cpm4001

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As someone else posted in the thread, the way to fix this is with a liferating system. Africa and the Spice Islands have low liferatings, the inland Americas have moderate liferatings, and coastal American provinces have relatively high liferatings. Then, as tech increases, minimum liferating decreases, just as in Vicky II. To make this playable for RotW countries, they can have modifiers attached (I'd say permanent ones based on initial techgroup, so that even if you westernize you don't lose the bonus) that would permit them to colonize lower-liferating provinces before the Europeans can (so Sub-Saharan and Native American-group nations get a large minimum liferating decrease; Chinese, Muslim, Ottoman, and Indian tech groups get a more reduced minimum liferating decrease; and Hoards and maybe Eastern European-groups (so that Russia in the hands of the AI or a player Hoard has a chance of nabbing Siberia) get a much smaller decrease.)
 

Casus_Belli

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Colonising itself needs a huge nerf, look at a world map from the 18th century, and there is still lots of land left, but now you'd be lucky to find many in 1600!

And some of the major colonial nations didn't even start colonising until around then.
 

FacelessOne

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Add a population counter for every country. From that are both, national menpower and possible colonists, are drawn. After somewhat like realistic birth/deathrates of that time. But it's the same problem in CK2 for example. "Well, i lost my 100k army. Guess i'll have to wait a year for the next 100k. Cause people in paradox games aren't born and raised. They're made of thin air and fully adult brought by the stork."
 

Lothair

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I don't like AI bonuses. I remember when they had the sea attrition immunity in EUIII, IMO if the AI is too dumb to plan a voyage that involves like 7 sea provinces they deserve to drown. I'd rather have a game where AI stupidity is revealed than a game where genies grant the AI special magical exemptions.
 

atestarossa

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I'm interested in how the added province count with the next DLC will turn out. Maybe the iberians won't be as fast to colonise siberia when they have more provinces in the warmer parts of Asia - slowing down colonisation quite a bit.
 

Beagá

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Having fought and won a war against Super Denmark in the 1550s for who would control Muscovy. In 1620 I begin to integrate Muscovy, who continues to happily expand its colonies in Siberia. In 1630 I finish this monumental task as the Commonwealth. And what to my eyes should I see, Spain is building colonies in the Kamchatka Penninsula, having done a fine job colonizing all of North America.

WTH?

Because UK is Hodor.
 

Cpt. Fabri

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The real problem is the absurdly quick amount of expansion for all powers. Places in the world that were not colonized until the 18th-19th Century are major metropoli by 1550-1650. The whole rate of colonization needs to slow down.

If you do that how do you represent this?

map_Spanish_Empire_16thC_675x324.png


That being said I find also annoying as hell the spanish Siberia. I think to begin with the colonization needs to be different in each continent. Is also absurd the expansion of the european powers in certain parts of Africa, either it is in certain parts of Asia. So while the New World can be still the colonization game as we know it maybe in Africa and Asia should work in a different manner.
 

MrMess85

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I feel there are two key issues when it comes to nations colonizing too early.

1. Disease
Unfortunately the game doesn't represent disease and one of the reasons Europe had difficulty colonizing Africa and Asia was that everyone they sent there died. Only through 19th century medicine and good old fashioned Gin and Tonic did people manage to survive in the east. Unfortunately at the moment once you have a built a colony it stays there forever, regardless of the realities that everyone who would be there would be dead. It would be great to see local climate impact on the cost of building new colonies.
i.e. Want to colonize the Ivory Coast? Sure thing, it will just cost you a stupid amount to achieve.

2. Economies
The problem with Spain during the 16th century was that it was bankrupt and inflation was killing it (something now completely avoided due to colonial nations).
Building and maintaining colonies should be an expensive undertaking and now with colonial nations they instead pay for themselves. Owning South America should be prestigious but the cost involved in maintaining such an empire should also be quite expensive.

Also the AI should be more inclined to make bold rash decisions when declaring war. Spain didn't try and own half of Europe because it had a Causa Belli but because it wanted to enforce Catholicism during the reformation. The wars it undertook as part of this destroyed it's economy and impacted its ability to colonize; also allowing others to emerge as colonial powers.
 

PeterCorless

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If you do that how do you represent this?

map_Spanish_Empire_16thC_675x324.png


That being said I find also annoying as hell the spanish Siberia. I think to begin with the colonization needs to be different in each continent. Is also absurd the expansion of the european powers in certain parts of Africa, either it is in certain parts of Asia. So while the New World can be still the colonization game as we know it maybe in Africa and Asia should work in a different manner.

The problem with this map is that a lot of the area "claimed" by Spain in this image wasn't really settled for a century or more afterwards. And parts of your map just seem to be incorrect for that period.

For instance, you have "Alto California" (present day state of California in the U.S.) as being shown as part of the Spanish Empire. Which it was. However, it was merely a vastly unexplored claim. Garpar de Portola led his forces north out of Mexico and founded the Presidio of San Diego in 1769. Monterey Bay, which would be home to the future capital, was indeed explored c. 1602. But the capital itself, Monterey, wasn't founded until 1770. The Mission San Francisco de Asis was only created in 1776. San Jose, as a city, was founded in 1777.

Another part of the map that you show as "Spanish" is the Dakotas. However, they never really got that far north up the Mississippi until after 1762, when Spain was ceded the Western Louisiana territory (Treaty of Fontainebleau). Even then, they barely explored a fraction of the entire expanse by the time the French nullified the treaty under Napoleon and sold it off to the nascent United States in 1803.

The Spanish definitely claimed the Philippines by this point in history, but studying the extent of their holdings in the territory shown at the time reveals that they had just a few settlements, and the natives were far from integrated into their control. Indeed, after founding the first settlement in the "Archipelago of St. Lazarus" (as so named by Magellan) at Cebu, the Spanish were driven off by violent attacks. It was decades before they founded a second. Legazpi's expedition of 1564 couldn't even land on Cebu because of native opposition to their arrival; they had to veer off and settled Panay instead.

It wasn't until 1570 that the tribes around Manila were conquered and the territory could be administered by the Viceroyalty of New Spain (Mexico). Yet the contesting of the islands would continue until the end of the 16th Century, with Dutch, Portuguese, Chinese and Japanese forces all attempting to raid or demand tribute of the locals. The Spanish, however, were a small minority attempting to rule over a vast native population that wasn't very keen on accepting foreign overlordship. For example, whatever the Spanish might claim as their territory at the time, the sultanates of Mindanao certainly did not recognize Spanish rule until the 17th Century (c. 1605 - 1645), so I am not sure why that island is shown as red on the map for the 16th Century.

In South America, Patagonia, though shown as fully red in your map, was an uncolonized frontier and would remain so until after the EUIV period, when Welsh settlers came over starting in 1865.

These are just the saliant errors and clarifications I'd make. There are likely a myriad more of them to go into.

The main point I'd make is that establishing a settlement meant thereafter a burden or duty to maintain administration over the territory. Many of these territories, while profitable, required a tremendous investment in energy to maintain -- especially in shipping. After a while, the Spanish hit a sort of "maximum carrying capacity."

Whereas the EUIV colonization system is more of a "fire and forget." Especially with colonial nations taking over administration of territory. You just send your colonist off to the next, and the next, and the next province. Hence Iberian Siberia.

Yet in history, all of this would have been a vast "claim," at first empty of Spanish settlers and filling gradually throughout the 17th - 18th Century.