Spain is being represented much poorer than it was in real history (countries GDP per capita comparison between the game and real historical data)

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Clophiroth

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I'm afraid Spanish Philippines is also a separate tag, like Spanish Cuba. This is not very historical, I think it has been done for gameplay purposes maybe. In my opinion Phillipines should be a Spanish Colonial State, and Cuba a Spanish Incorporated State. It feels really weird they will have their own army, navy and flag.

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Colonial tags are just done that way. It may not be strictly historical but it makes sense: its so far away that although administration ON PAPER may be centralised and from the mainland, in practice the governor will end having a lot of power after all. Its a gameplay abstraction of that


I am a Spaniard and I honestly don´t mind it
 
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Colonial tags are just done that way. It may not be strictly historical but it makes sense: its so far away that although administration ON PAPER may be centralised and from the mainland, in practice the governor will end having a lot of power after all. Its a gameplay abstraction of that


I am a Spaniard and I honestly don´t mind it

The main problem of a different tag for Cuba is that Cuba and Puerto Rico sent representatives to the spanish congress in the victoria 3 era, if the Cuban aristocrats will not be represented in the spanish Interest Groups the composition of them change in spain.
 
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wilcoxchar

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Colonial tags are just done that way. It may not be strictly historical but it makes sense: its so far away that although administration ON PAPER may be centralised and from the mainland, in practice the governor will end having a lot of power after all. Its a gameplay abstraction of that


I am a Spaniard and I honestly don´t mind it
In the case of Cuba it's also necessary since the only way to represent Cuba still having the slave trade while it's banned in the rest of Spain is to have it be a separate tag.
 
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Didn't Paradox say it's possible for USA states have different laws for slavery? So it could be possible for Cuba to be part of the Spain TAG and still have slavery allowed in it.
 
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Clophiroth

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Didn't Paradox say it's possible for USA states have different laws for slavery? So it could be possible for Cuba to be part of the Spain TAG and still have slavery allowed in it.

Legacy Slavery allows slavery in some regions and not others.

It doesn´t allow slave trading, though.
 
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The GDP is not a basic unit of the game, I think that the really important indicators of power of the nation at 1836 will be 1. Population, 2. Tech and 3. Literacy Rate.

Even if spain has a lot of factories and a huge GDP at 1836, if you don´t have population, tech and literacy rate you will fall behind in a few years.
You get The Point, bravo~!

Increase Spain‘s GDP and reduce Tech, Literacy rate or other data which Spain was really low in 1836 period.
With the current game mechanics, we already have so many ways to ’‘balance’‘ the game, instead of reducing GDP roughly.

’‘Lazy to change’‘ should never be a reason for ’‘Balance’‘.
 
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Didn't Paradox say it's possible for USA states have different laws for slavery? So it could be possible for Cuba to be part of the Spain TAG and still have slavery allowed in it.
Slavery. Not slave trade. It's two different things.

The Legacy Slavery law, which is what the USA has, allows there to be different Free and Slave states within the country, but under Legacy Slavery the slave trade and importation of slaves is still banned completely and can't be decided by individual state.

The Slave Trade law, which is what Cuba has, allows slaves to be imported from decentralized countries that allow slavery if the country has a declared interest in the region.
 
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Legacy Slavery allows slavery in some regions and not others.

It doesn´t allow slave trading, though.

Slavery. Not slave trade. It's two different things.

The Legacy Slavery law, which is what the USA has, allows there to be different Free and Slave states within the country, but under Legacy Slavery the slave trade and importation of slaves is still banned completely and can't be decided by individual state.

The Slave Trade law, which is what Cuba has, allows slaves to be imported from decentralized countries that allow slavery if the country has a declared interest in the region.
Duh, you are right. Yeah, in that case, would it be possible somehow for "foreign nations" (different tags) somehow have an IG in your nation?
Specially in the case of a master-vassal relationship, it should be possible to have it both ways, right?
You could have then, in Cuba, have an IG of loyalists that want to keep being a colony/dominion/protectorate of Spain and you could have some Cuban IG in Spain to make sure Cuban interests are being considered in the "motherland".
 
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Duh, you are right. Yeah, in that case, would it be possible somehow for "foreign nations" (different tags) somehow have an IG in your nation?
Specially in the case of a master-vassal relationship, it should be possible to have it both ways, right?
You could have then, in Cuba, have an IG of loyalists that want to keep being a colony/dominion/protectorate of Spain and you could have some Cuban IG in Spain to make sure Cuban interests are being considered in the "motherland".
That would be better modeled by having something like an "anti-colonial" trait that IGs can possibly have. Probably most common with the Intelligentsia but maybe possible to pop up in other IGs later on, possibly locked behind a tech.

That and if the subject nation grows and becomes more self-sufficient relative to its overlord, the subject is just going to be more likely to launch a diplomatic play for independence because it can stand on its own against the mother nation without needing to ask another power for help. Or of course Spain could launch a diplomatic play of its own to annex Cuba, but that would mean ending the slave trade if it does get annexed which the local landowners would likely be opposed to and might escalate to a war.
 
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Slavery. Not slave trade. It's two different things.

The Legacy Slavery law, which is what the USA has, allows there to be different Free and Slave states within the country, but under Legacy Slavery the slave trade and importation of slaves is still banned completely and can't be decided by individual state.

The Slave Trade law, which is what Cuba has, allows slaves to be imported from decentralized countries that allow slavery if the country has a declared interest in the region.
Slave Trade was "banned" in USA and Cuba before 1836. But the truth is that USA, like Cuba, had cases of Slave Trade after that "ban". For example, Slave Trade in the district of Columbia, wasn't officially banned until the Compromise of 1850.
 
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Slave Trade was "banned" in USA and Cuba before 1836. But the truth is that USA, like Cuba, had cases of Slave Trade after that "ban". For example, Slave Trade in the district of Columbia, wasn't officially banned until the Compromise of 1850.
The importation of slaves was banned in the United States in 1807. Cuba didn't ban the importation of slaves until 1867.
 
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Slave Trade was "banned" in USA and Cuba before 1836. But the truth is that USA, like Cuba, had cases of Slave Trade after that "ban". For example, Slave Trade in the district of Columbia, wasn't officially banned until the Compromise of 1850.
if you have issues with how slavery is depicted that's probably a topic for a new thread.
 
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Spartakusbund

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Slave Trade was "banned" in USA and Cuba before 1836. But the truth is that USA, like Cuba, had cases of Slave Trade after that "ban". For example, Slave Trade in the district of Columbia, wasn't officially banned until the Compromise of 1850.
You’re confusing external trade with internal trade. The US banned the external trade (importing slaves from Africa) in 1807. That had nothing to do with buying and selling slaves in the capital.
 
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wilcoxchar

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Ah, I think I see the confusion. The Compromise of 1850 banned the sale of slaves in the District of Columbia for the purpose of internal trade between slave owners in other states in the US. So a slaveowner from Georgia could no longer come to DC to buy a slave from a slaveowner in Virginia and the slaveowner in Virginia could not sell their slave within the borders of the District. The importation of slaves from outside the US, which is what the Slave Trade law in the game means, had already been outlawed throughout the US for decades since 1807 and had nothing to do with the Compromise of 1850.
 
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You see, around the parts I live in at least, a sadly too common thing to see is opposition parties to reach power during economic recessions, promising improvement. And surprise surprise, in one or two years after they reach power, what happens? GDP increase! So anybody not paying attention almost feels like this is good news.

Yeah except.... one of the major components in the yearly domestic product is GOVERNMENT SPENDING. If an administration, as a administrative tool, sees increase in government spending as a way to improve the economy, you can bet the apparent good results are going to be short-lived and followed by an even worse crises just around the corner. It has happened a zillion times and it will keep happening - mainly because of people who think "duh if GPD numbers are what people use, what do you suggest then?"
GDP is a perfectly good metric and its very reasonable that it includes government spending: it's the total value of stuff being bought and sold in the country, so, yes, if the government buys things, of course it should be included. If you think that a piece of government spending is inflationary (something that afaik isn't represented in the game) or that it will run up a debt, sure, whatever, but that doesn't mean that including it in GDP is somehow a bad idea (in fact, not including it would be a horribly dumb idea). GDP *is* a good way to represent "how productive is the economy right now," but that doesn't necessarily imply that its sustainable (and there are *all sorts* of reasons that have nothing to do with government intervention that an economy can be very productive in the short term but unsustainable in the long term).

Your specific gripe with how your local politicians talk about GDP seems to have given you the mistaken impression that its a bad thing to think about or that its completely misleading or something (it's not). It's a very good metric to give you an overview of an entire country's economy, and it would be a bad idea for the devs to start thinking "it's all fake and meaningless and unknowable and we shouldn't pay attention to the historical records of it in 1836, we should just go off vibes instead" - but thankfully it doesn't seem like they're doing that.
 
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it's all fake and meaningless and unknowable and we shouldn't pay attention to the historical records of it in 1836, we should just go off vibes instead" -

Hehehehe someone's been reading Schoppenhauer's Stratagems! That is not what I said and you know it, specially so the "vibes" part. Neither the "completelly misleading" etc. - in fact the the very first thing I say in my post is that GDP data is valid, when in context - that part is absent from your quote. So yeah don't blame me for thinking you are not really looking for a serous discussion here. Bye then!
 
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Hehehehe someone's been reading Schoppenhauer's Stratagems! That is not what I said and you know it, specially so the "vibes" part. Neither the "completelly misleading" etc. - in fact the the very first thing I say in my post is that GDP data is valid, when in context - that part is absent from your quote. So yeah don't blame me for thinking you are not really looking for a serous discussion here. Bye then!
bye
 
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Hehehehe someone's been reading Schoppenhauer's Stratagems! That is not what I said and you know it, specially so the "vibes" part. Neither the "completelly misleading" etc. - in fact the the very first thing I say in my post is that GDP data is valid, when in context - that part is absent from your quote. So yeah don't blame me for thinking you are not really looking for a serous discussion here. Bye then!
And besides-besides..... the OPs idea is to put Spain more in par with France? Does that "feel" right? France spent the 19th century building up a colonial empire and successfully fighting a world war soon after, whereas Spain saw one slow continuous colonial demise over the same period, only to have it's remaining empire foreclosed by the US, a peaceful (kinda) isolationist nation. Data showing Spain should be "stronger" doesn't seem right to me, data or not, for game purposes.
This is 100% advocating for vibes over data.
 
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