Spain in EU3

[alvaro]

...and YES I like pops, and YES I happen to be an economist who loves micromanagement. Pretty pleeeaze, give us some pops. I suggest a "region" pop modifier (like Hoi II, region mode), so that you can change say, New England's clergymen to laymen, he, he, here you go Opus dei...

how was this slogan...once it pops you cannot stop, or something like that . anyway, there will be no pops in EU3.

 

[unmerged(28853)]

I'm not an expert of spanish history, but spain was a major power of the 16th century and that certainly has to be in the game.

That said, there were reasons for it's decline that can be handled has events in the game. I mean, didn't the brits and privateers had something to do with their decline?

About the provinces, they should be has historical accurate has possible, not optimized for power. I mean, it was with the historical ones that spain did it in the "real world".

 

[unmerged(29627)]

how was this slogan...once it pops you cannot stop, or something like that . anyway, there will be no pops in EU3.

damn...

It would have certainly taken off some of that "Risk" feeling from the game.

Well, maybe some well-seasoned events, leaders and so on

 

[alvaro]

damn...

It would have certainly taken off some of that "Risk" feeling from the game.

Well, maybe some well-seasoned events, leaders and so on

Actually there's this cool additon for an almost infinite number of tags for countries. That means that if you want you can create kind of a "country" for A N Y T H I N G you want. Say the church, the masons, jesuists, trade companies, parties (like anglo or francophilic ones in XVIII in Spain or pro-war), slave traders, dunno, you name it,...
Then you could create events for those and there you go, you have no pops but you have lobbies, so to say. it's an amazing change for the game, I think.

Anyway this is all speculation as we don't know how events are going to be handled. But, well, as far a you don't speculate with real states (we are already pissed off enough with that ) all the rest specullation is fun, ain't it?

 

[unmerged(29627)]

I'm not an expert of spanish history, but spain was a major power of the 16th century and that certainly has to be in the game.

Well, I am a historian as well, and yes, it was a major, but NOT "the" major as some of my fellow countrymen were saying. "El siglo de oro" (the Golden century) saw Spain as a dominant cultural powerhouse and its decline from no. 1 to yes, one of the majors, but NOT the major, as it was in the XVIth century.

That said, there were reasons for it's decline that can be handled has events in the game. I mean, didn't the brits and privateers had something to do with their decline?

Yes, some.
But it was not the only or major reason. Bad policy, economy, luck, small pops, RELIGION, dynastic quagmires, etc...
There never is a single reason (save the A-bomb)

About the provinces, they should be has historical accurate has possible, not optimized for power. I mean, it was with the historical ones that spain did it in the "real world".

Yes, completely agree. Imagine a densely populated Portugal (like, say, Flanders) would have ruled, or Portugal+Spain, phew...

In any case, for those ole' revisionists, and "what ifs", I suggest the Grand Campaign (CK+EU+Vicky)

¡Vivan los pops!
join the pop platform and watch them go on holiday-packaged vacations!!!

Pagan-to-Iberian pops are good!!
Sangría, Porto and Rum drinking Iberian pops in the Caribbean...
etc....

 

[unmerged(29627)]

Actually there's this cool additon for an almost infinite number of tags for countries. That means that if you want you can create kind of a "country" for A N Y T H I N G you want. Say the church, the masons, jesuists, trade companies, parties (like anglo or francophilic ones in XVIII in Spain or pro-war), slave traders, dunno, you name it,...
Then you could create events for those and there you go, you have no pops but you have lobbies, so to say. it's an amazing change for the game, I think.

Sounds like it. I have enough fun with my Vicky pops as it is. A shame though...
This is my first EUIII thread, so I'll keep a close watch on its development. I'm on "excedencia" at this time

Anyway this is all speculation as we don't know how events are going to be handled. But, well, as far a you don't speculate with real states (we are already pissed off enough with that ) all the rest specullation is fun, ain't it?

Yes

 

[Amadís de Gaula]

Well, I am a historian as well, and yes, it was a major, but NOT "the" major as some of my fellow countrymen were saying. "El siglo de oro" (the Golden century) saw Spain as a dominant cultural powerhouse and its decline from no. 1 to yes, one of the majors, but NOT the major, as it was in the XVIth century.

Belisario, everyody´s, save some exception, saying Spain was the MAJOR is the XVI century (in fact until Rocroi), a disaster later on, and one of the powers (not the major one) in the XVIII century.

Other than that good posts.

 

[unmerged(29627)]

Belisario, everyody´s, save some exception, saying Spain was the MAJOR is the XVI century (in fact until Rocroi), a disaster later on, and one of the powers (not the major one) in the XVIII century.

Other than that good posts.

Must've read the exception o

Apologies then. Thx

"póngame a los pies de su señora, pero sin tirar del pelo" (not-translatable)

Cheers

 

[Jolt]

Belisario, everyody´s, save some exception, saying Spain was the MAJOR is the XVI century (in fact until Rocroi), a disaster later on, and one of the powers (not the major one) in the XVIII century.

Other than that good posts.

Meh, like many, many others said (And I'm Portuguese, I'm an historian, and i know the Spanish history fairly well) Spain was shown to be a great power until 1640. I have seen some Spanish saying had a Great Fleet, but that "Great Fleet" was pretty much an amalgamy of ships from different places, each with different armaments. That was partly one of the things that made the "Great Fleet" be defeated before the English, as most cannon balls in many of the ships didn't fit the cannons, and I've seen several different cannons from several ships myself, as well as several different cannon balls. Among the confusion of the "Great Fleet", the Spanish lost most of their armada, lost the Low Countries, eventually lost Milan and Naples. As such, Spain did fairly well without an organized competition (They had no rivals due to Tordesillas) When they started having competition, they slowly began being destroyed, since their industry (Retarded and utmost uncompetitive (Like the Portuguese one)) their commerce began taking huge hits since they couldn't maintain a good flow between their colonies, due to the Dutch, the British and the French. Later, the Spanish succession marked pretty much the end of the Spanish Colonial Empire, since Spain, being desputed and quarrelled by a bunch of countries got cut off it's colonies. In the end, it couldn't avoid a massive rebellion on it's colonies. (Something the Portuguese actually managed to!)

 

[alvaro]

Meh, like many, many others said (And I'm Portuguese, I'm an historian, and i know the Spanish history fairly well) Spain was shown to be a great power until 1640. I have seen some Spanish saying had a Great Fleet, but that "Great Fleet" was pretty much an amalgamy of ships from different places, each with different armaments. That was partly one of the things that made the "Great Fleet" be defeated before the English, as most cannon balls in many of the ships didn't fit the cannons, and I've seen several different cannons from several ships myself, as well as several different cannon balls. Among the confusion of the "Great Fleet", the Spanish lost most of their armada, lost the Low Countries, eventually lost Milan and Naples. As such, Spain did fairly well without an organized competition (They had no rivals due to Tordesillas) When they started having competition, they slowly began being destroyed, since their industry (Retarded and utmost uncompetitive (Like the Portuguese one)) their commerce began taking huge hits since they couldn't maintain a good flow between their colonies, due to the Dutch, the British and the French. Later, the Spanish succession marked pretty much the end of the Spanish Colonial Empire, since Spain, being desputed and quarrelled by a bunch of countries got cut off it's colonies. In the end, it couldn't avoid a massive rebellion on it's colonies. (Something the Portuguese actually managed to!)

I dont quite undestand what you are trying to say. what is the point of your post?

 

[unmerged(29627)]

Meh, like many, (cut)

¿?
yeah, whatever

 

[yourworstnightm]

I don't see the problem, as human player Spain was probably the easiest nation to play with in EUII, best choice for any WC contempt. Then there was the crappy Ai, that for Spain could not conquer the latin american indians, for England could not even take Ireland and Scotland properly and never reached India, not to speak of the Ottoman AI that never dared to take on the Balkans. (then again the austrians allway ended up annexing all of Germany and the swedes were able to conquer a whole lot of funny provinces in the most funny places of the world).

 

[unmerged(29627)]

I don't see the problem, as human player Spain was probably the easiest nation to play with in EUII, best choice for any WC contempt. Then there was the crappy Ai, that for Spain could not conquer the latin american indians, for England could not even take Ireland and Scotland properly and never reached India, not to speak of the Ottoman AI that never dared to take on the Balkans. (then again the austrians allway ended up annexing all of Germany and the swedes were able to conquer a whole lot of funny provinces in the most funny places of the world).

Yep, that is exactly the point being made here.
The AI always needs some tweaking.
Other than that, there's more tweaking needed in say, events, provinces, maps and such.

 

[unmerged(52196)]

No, Spain was the strongest power in 16th, 17th and 18th century. Only was hegemonical y 16th century, but was the strongest power too in 17th and 18th centuries.

In Eastern Europe there were battles in which 100 thousands of combatants fought on each side (like the Battle of Beresteczko - in civil war of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth).

So, still thinking the same about strength and power?

 

[Amadís de Gaula]

To be honest, the strongest power from 1641 onwards was France, closely followed by England, specially in the XVIII cent. Spain was a power, but only a contender. But by far not so powerful as France (though our navy was way better, and obtained much better results against the english than the french one).

 

[unmerged(17138)]

IMHO what we're seeing here is a case of the victors writing the history .. England "won" in the long term, so Spain gets relegated to the role of second class citizens in the mind of people who aren't familiar enough with the Spanish side.

This goes on through-out the world .. if you want an example, read the country description for Korea in EU2 :wacko:

 

[Amadís de Gaula]

IMHO what we're seeing here is a case of the victors writing the history .. :

You bet... cos the black legend is an enormous collection of stupidities. It´s curious anyway that in some issues, like the Inquisition, the english (Kamen, the famous BBC report) were the ones that first stated the falsehoods of what was being told.

 

[Amadís de Gaula]

I dont think you mean per capita, cause that would mean Spain in 1794 had the highest standard of living on the planet.




Perhaps we need some folks from the French forum to join the discussion or relative power in the 18th C

To put an example (I don´t have right here the exact figures):
- GDPpc England=200
- GDPpc France = 190
- GDPpc Spain = (200+190)/2*0,94= 185,6

So Spain had a standard not so far away from the F@E combined. It was poorer than France and England but noy by much. Tons of money, in the XVIII cent., was spent on palaces (f.e. the Royal palace in Madrid). Artist from all over Europe came here (Tiépolo, Mengs, Scarlatti, among others). Spain was rich, though the capital was not efficiently used and a big amount of it was owned by the church.

The poor Spain begins in 1808, and reached its absolute lowest peak in 1875, when the GDPpc was only 35% of the french one. Now adays it´s around 90% (someone could bring the exact figure).

 

[unmerged(29627)]

'sus órdenes..

Spain:

GDP:
purchasing power parity - $937.6 billion (2004 est.)

GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $23,300 (2004 est.)

France:

GDP:
purchasing power parity - $1.737 trillion (2004 est.)

GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $28,700 (2004 est.)

1 World $55,500,000,000,000
2 United States $11,750,000,000,000
3 European Union $11,650,000,000,000
4 China $7,262,000,000,000
5 Japan $3,745,000,000,000
6 India $3,319,000,000,000
7 Germany $2,362,000,000,000
8 United Kingdom $1,782,000,000,000
9 France $1,737,000,000,000
10 Italy $1,609,000,000,000
11 Brazil $1,492,000,000,000
12 Russia $1,408,000,000,000
13 Canada $1,023,000,000,000
14 Mexico $1,006,000,000,000
15 Spain $937,600,000,000

Spain's economy is 53,97% of France's
Spain's GDP per capita is 81,18% of France's

Data is taken from the CIA which is not very reliable (seriously), it is outdated and seriously lagging most of the time, (check your own country if you don't believe me) but it should give rough estimates.

I'll dig deeper then:

Wikipedia (more up-to-date)

Rank Country GDP
— World 44,433,002
— European Union 13,446,050
1 United States 12,485,725
2 Japan 4,571,314
3 Germany 2,797,343
4 People's Republic of China 2,224,811
5 United Kingdom 2,201,473
6 France 2,105,864
7 Italy 1,766,160
8 Canada 1,130,208
9 Spain 1,126,565

Spain's pops

Population
- January 2006 est. 46.061.274 (27th)
- 2002 census 40,847,371
- Density 87.2/km² (84th)

GDP (PPP)
- Total $1.014 trillion (11th)
- Per capita 2005 estimate $26,320 (26th)

France's pops

Population
(January 1, 2006)
• Total2 63,587,700 (20th)
• Metropolitan France3 61,044,684 (20th)
• Density3 112/km² (68th)
(Official INSEE source)

GDP (PPP)
• Total $1.816 Trillion (7th)
• Per capita 2005 est. $29,900 (24th)

'ere we go, once again into the breach...

Spain's GDP per capita (PPP) is 88% of France's
Spain's GDP is 55,84% of France's
Spain's pops are 72,44% of France's pops

Growth would be another issue....

Cheers all

PS (just posted CIA's world fact book, so that you could check the "intel")

 

[unmerged(29627)]

In Eastern Europe there were battles in which 100 thousands of combatants fought on each side (like the Battle of Beresteczko - in civil war of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth).

So, still thinking the same about strength and power?

...Same in China my friend, and they didn't call the shots.