Sovjets in MP

[unmerged(8114)]

Having played with and against the Sovjets a few times in MP, it seems to me the most importent things are:

- Build masses of infanterie (~75% of your IC), I like to build 25% anti-tank, 25% artillery, 40% plain and 10% engineers
- Concentrate on infanterie weapons research (~25% of your IC)
- Don't research any doctrines early in the game. They are too expensive.

Set up your defences along rivers. That means you sacrifice a few provinces, but that doesn't really matter. If defending from a well fortified position, your low org isn't that much of a problem. Have larger armies in the second line, that can quickly reinforce the front line. Make a fighting retreat. It is better to lose 50% of your provinces than 50% of your divisons.

Have an army dug in in Moscow througout the whole game. Moscow is a level 5 fortification. German tanks that break through your line will not be able to conquer Moscow.

Don't put to much forces in the south. It is more important to hold Moscow and Leningrad. If you cannot spare armies, just let the south open. The game is decided in and around Moscow. If you can hold Moscow, you have a good chance of winning.

When you are outnumbering the Germans, you should start building tanks. DO NOT ATTACK BEFORE YOU HAVE TANKS! Due to the low org any attack without tanks is likely to fail.

Always look for German units that you can cut off from the supply.
If that's possible, do it. Then wait a few days, bring reinforcement and when you are outnumbering it 2.5 : 1, attack and destroy them.

I'm sure other people have other experiences and opinions that might work better.

P.S: I normally play without bombers. The building scheme should look different if bombing is allowed.

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Hm, not much response.

Anyway, here is another hint. Very useful in '36, but some may say it is an exploit:

If playing Sovjets in '36, declare war on Germany immediately. Germany will have serious resource problems (because of war trade penalties). You have 10% lower IC due to dissent, but you get that easily back by lower consumer uptake.

 

[unmerged(8463)]

Have been playing on eastern front a bit now and my experiences are pretty much the same. Especially good situations for cutting the German forces off from the supply is when they go after Leningrad, Sevastopol or Caucasus. They often cant afford to leave enough large mobile reserve to stop your offensive. Besides masses of infantry tied to front line USSR should try to build up effective mobile reserve as early as possible. Without one Germany will take your provinces one by one with superioir concentration of forces.

DOW early in 1936 game really is insanily powerfull, despite the +10% dissent you get some 200 IC reduce in consumer goods, enough to build 40 regular infantry divisions every 3 months (until manpower becomes a problem ).

 

[unmerged(11923)]

Well I have a question as Im currently in a MP game. Will I get the same drop in consumer demands if I attack Estonia or Finland as if I attack Germany.

It would be great to know if you could declare war on estonia, take them out but not annex them, and continue to have that drop in consumer goods?

Its an exploit yes, but is it possible?

 

[unmerged(8463)]

No, only works when in war with Germany.

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Originally posted by Jonicro
Besides masses of infantry tied to front line USSR should try to build up effective mobile reserve as early as possible. Without one Germany will take your provinces one by one with superioir concentration of forces.

Good point! I forgot about this. You should, whenever possible, have 1 or 2 mobile armies. You will be lagging behind in tank tech. So once you have enough frontline Infanterie build up, mixed armies made of mech inf (anti-tank and engeneering) and some tanks should be useful. Those mobile armies don't have to win battles, they only should give you enough time to retreat units that are in danger of encirclement. And they are of course really good to cut of advancing units.

About the lower dissent: I'm not sure, but it seems to me that dowing a minor also reduces consumer uptake, but nut as much as dowing a major. Should be easy to find out.

 

[unmerged(11923)]

Some thoughts

- As the USSR I agree with your thoughts to give up territory. But remember that there are another reason for it - Fog of War. If you keep just 3-4 single divisions in the front areas you will be able to see the German OOB before he knows yours. That will give you time to dispose your forces and he will never know what he is up to before he declares war and start sending in recon-planes. And regroupin takes time and will give you some valuable extra time.

- If you talk about mobile force I think cavalry is an excellent choice and the ones you get from the start should be used wisely. If you punch a hole in the front line send those units out as small corps tocreate havoc.
Their useless against hardtargets anyway so their main purpose is not to hold territory just hold up enemy forces. Just move them around.

- Thirdly I think you should fortify every 1-industry sector in Western Russia. Not just around Niemen, Dniepr and Don sectors. The enemy will then bleed some extra for every step he will take. And if you hold out and finally can go on the offensive this obstacles will hinder you less as the axis not got the strenght growing as it does for you.

 

[L G]

Problem i noticed with Russia is that they like to take territory early in the game i.e. Roumania and the baltic countries

 

[unmerged(11923)]

Originally posted by Isebrand
Hm, not much response.

Anyway, here is another hint. Very useful in '36, but some may say it is an exploit:

If playing Sovjets in '36, declare war on Germany immediately. Germany will have serious resource problems (because of war trade penalties). You have 10% lower IC due to dissent, but you get that easily back by lower consumer uptake.

Yes and dissent will go down to zero in one year thx to the purges.

 

[Minodrin]

I was just thinking about that "hint" about Germany. Won't the German player be pretty pissed off if you do that? It's just Poland in between you know, and that is no problem for a human Germany... and besides, doesn't the German consumer-goods demand fall too?

 

[unmerged(8463)]

Originally posted by Minodrin
I was just thinking about that "hint" about Germany. Won't the German player be pretty pissed off if you do that? It's just Poland in between you know, and that is no problem for a human Germany... and besides, doesn't the German consumer-goods demand fall too?

Sure, the Germany will usually at this point try to kill you off. Its though not all that easy to do when you got Poland between you and USSR, France behind you and your army is unprepared. USSR will finish those 40 inf divs in 3 months and after that the quick invasion becomes very hard. Germanys consumer goods drop also but a lot less than USSR's. They also get that reduce when at war with any country.

Btw in my last game i noticed interesting thing, my consumer goods demand dropped from 200 to 100 without a war. Could radicaly expanding Germany cause that?

 

[Gezeder]

I think higher war entry reduces consumer goods need, not 100% sure of that though.....

Gezeder

 

[cccino]

It does for russia (you can move that slider down every month) but i've never noticed it for any other country

 

[Szun]

Originally posted by Jonicro
Sure, the Germany will usually at this point try to kill you off. Its though not all that easy to do when you got Poland between you and USSR, France behind you and your army is unprepared. USSR will finish those 40 inf divs in 3 months and after that the quick invasion becomes very hard. Germanys consumer goods drop also but a lot less than USSR's. They also get that reduce when at war with any country.

Btw in my last game i noticed interesting thing, my consumer goods demand dropped from 200 to 100 without a war. Could radicaly expanding Germany cause that?

SU's consumer goes down every month by a few points, dont know how deep I never got past 1940 without a ctd
But that was 1.01, I try USSR next with bolted '36.

 

[Szun]

Originally posted by Gezeder
I think higher war entry reduces consumer goods need, not 100% sure of that though.....

Gezeder

Yes thats true..but only for democrats...USSR has no Warentry *clock* afaik.

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Originally posted by Minodrin
I was just thinking about that "hint" about Germany. Won't the German player be pretty pissed off if you do that? It's just Poland in between you know, and that is no problem for a human Germany... and besides, doesn't the German consumer-goods demand fall too?

The way I see it in a MP game is - if you can finish someone off, then you do it. If not, you don't. So if Germany in '36 feels he could win against Sovjets, he will do it. If the German player thinks he can't, then he will not do it, no matter what you do.

And having resource problems might convince even an aggressiv player that he cannot win against Sovjets yet.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

Further on your point

On your last point Isebrand I agree. However I am posting from the German perspective.

If Russia DOW's Germany right off, the superiority of Germanies troops would easily roll through Poland and hit Russia proper.

This happened to me once in MP, I then DOW on belgium only, and puppeted thier country. I got all the resources I needed at that point, and had ample supplies to produce an army equal to the Russians.

The issue I see at that point with Germany is a DOW by the Allies, I countered that with an alliance with Italy (human player in the game). He swept into France from the South pressuring the Maignot Line, I rolled in through the Ardenese with one Army group of 12 divisions and took Paris.

In conjunction with that I pressed Russia hard and over ran thier country in less then 2 months.

My point is as Germany an early DOW by Russia gives them an advantage as they dont need IC's to keep thier population happy but it doesnt give them any advantage in thier military. It still would take them 2 months to produce an army capable of defeating the Wermact and it would take some good strategy for the Russian player even then to succeed. Should a DOW happen the only way for the German player to compete is to attack as fast as possible. Having Japan in the mix and in the Axis is a nice thing to have that I didnt, Russia is exposed in the east and a two pronged assault early would absolutely be the end of Mother Russia.

Odin

 

[unmerged(8463)]

Good they added that consumer goods reduce when the war entry rises, makes the contrast between war and peace smaller and early DOW less important strategy. Now both DOWing early and trying to delay the war as late as possible are working strategies.

 

[unmerged(11923)]

Re: Further on your point

Originally posted by Odin1970
On your last point Isebrand I agree. However I am posting from the German perspective.

If Russia DOW's Germany right off, the superiority of Germanies troops would easily roll through Poland and hit Russia proper.

This happened to me once in MP, I then DOW on belgium only, and puppeted thier country. I got all the resources I needed at that point, and had ample supplies to produce an army equal to the Russians.

The issue I see at that point with Germany is a DOW by the Allies, I countered that with an alliance with Italy (human player in the game). He swept into France from the South pressuring the Maignot Line, I rolled in through the Ardenese with one Army group of 12 divisions and took Paris.

In conjunction with that I pressed Russia hard and over ran thier country in less then 2 months.

My point is as Germany an early DOW by Russia gives them an advantage as they dont need IC's to keep thier population happy but it doesnt give them any advantage in thier military. It still would take them 2 months to produce an army capable of defeating the Wermact and it would take some good strategy for the Russian player even then to succeed. Should a DOW happen the only way for the German player to compete is to attack as fast as possible. Having Japan in the mix and in the Axis is a nice thing to have that I didnt, Russia is exposed in the east and a two pronged assault early would absolutely be the end of Mother Russia.

Odin

I share your thoughts here. Germany is way to strong in the 1936 scenario, an alliance with Italy can easily seal Russias fall. Meanwhile Russia should start with 80 divisions instead of 43 to get it historically correct.

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Re: Further on your point

Originally posted by Odin1970
On your last point Isebrand I agree. However I am posting from the German perspective.

If Russia DOW's Germany right off, the superiority of Germanies troops would easily roll through Poland and hit Russia proper.

This happened to me once in MP, I then DOW on belgium only, and puppeted thier country. I got all the resources I needed at that point, and had ample supplies to produce an army equal to the Russians.

Interesting points. I don't have much experience playing Germans. The only time I played Germany in '36 (against a French and a Sovjet player) I played it historically until early '39. At this point I puppeted Belgium. My 105 divisons then rolled over the French player, who had 115 divisons. After that it took me 2 month to finish of the Sovjet player. Nothing he could do to stop my medium tanks. It might have helped that the Sovjet player was spending too much on research and wasn't using Russias size to his advantage. But I doubt that this would have helped him much.

So from my experience as Sovjets I would prefer an early war, with only a few tanks for the German player. Best defense would be to heavily fortify Leningrad and Moscow and take the southern front as far back as Stalingrad. When the German player reaches the positions he should have his frontlines overextendend. And Moscow should have new troops ready.

And I think that puppeting Belgium and DOWing Poland will result in a DOW from France and Britain. So the German player would have a two-front war. France in '36 can take a few weeks to conquer, giving the Sovjets some extra time.

But maybe we could try this out? Odin1970, do you have time for a nice 1v1 MP game at some time?