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Celdur

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One thing that wasn't mentioned yet is that in real life, Russia was heavily supported by the US via lend lease, so maybe it's true they would win 9 times out of 10, but not without lend lease. Maybe there should be added some kind of focus to model this.

I don't think so, while undoubtedly the US support was important, what ended up stopping the German advance was their own limitations on Supply, worst case scenario there is no Stalingrad debacle, and the Soviets have to wait until 1943 to crush the Germans instead of 1942.

We know that the Soviets were not going to surrender even if they lost all the key western cities nor was their army going to be weakened by that.
 

Opanashc

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I don't think so, while undoubtedly the US support was important, what ended up stopping the German advance was their own limitations on Supply, worst case scenario there is no Stalingrad debacle, and the Soviets have to wait until 1943 to crush the Germans instead of 1942.

We know that the Soviets were not going to surrender even if they lost all the key western cities nor was their army going to be weakened by that.
Amount of LL before Battle of Kursk was fairly small compared to the total. Debatable, if it was the straw that broke the camel's back or not in 1942.
 

Praetori

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Amount of LL before Battle of Kursk was fairly small compared to the total. Debatable, if it was the straw that broke the camel's back or not in 1942.
There are some heavy hitters (including prominent guys like Khrushchev and Zhukov) that's been pretty forthcoming in their views that all had been lost without the LL. Although not as impressive in 41-42 as later on it was just enough (along with enormous Soviets sacrifices) to withstand the onslaught and eventually turn the tide.
 

Dalwin

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There are some heavy hitters (including prominent guys like Khrushchev and Zhukov) that's been pretty forthcoming in their views that all had been lost without the LL. Although not as impressive in 41-42 as later on it was just enough (along with enormous Soviets sacrifices) to withstand the onslaught and eventually turn the tide.
Khrushchev in his memoirs credited LL with saving Stalingrad (SPAM specifically), though I have always felt that was him being political and diplomatic. He is also one of the few (perhaps only?) Soviet Premiers to visit America. His visit included a tour of some South Dakotan farms to observe our agricultural practices.
 

Opanashc

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There are some heavy hitters (including prominent guys like Khrushchev and Zhukov) that's been pretty forthcoming in their views that all had been lost without the LL. Although not as impressive in 41-42 as later on it was just enough (along with enormous Soviets sacrifices) to withstand the onslaught and eventually turn the tide.
And some heavy hitters in USA claim that Eastern Front was a sideshow to battle of Alamein, that Operation Citadel was a failure because of invasion of Sicily, and so on. LL was important in saving lives and shortening the war, but it did not end the war in of itself. It constituted 4% of Soviet GDP during the period - at a time, when ~55% of that GDP was spent on war.
 

Dalwin

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It is not just about being ready. If anything, France's state of readiness at the moment of being invaded was better than the Soviets. France just has no large tracts of land to give up to buy time and stretch the German supply lines.

The Soviet Union was big. Big country, big population, big industry, big army. They were no joke at all and the game would be much less satisfying if they were easier to conquer.
 

CrazyZombie

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It is not just about being ready. If anything, France's state of readiness at the moment of being invaded was better than the Soviets. France just has no large tracts of land to give up to buy time and stretch the German supply lines.

The Soviet Union was big. Big country, big population, big industry, big army. They were no joke at all and the game would be much less satisfying if they were easier to conquer.
By "ready" I was meaning first of all social factors - population was mostly ready to fight for what they got from soviet regime.
 

nalewacz

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By "ready" I was meaning first of all social factors - population was mostly ready to fight for what they got from soviet regime.

SOV people didnt want to fight for SOV goverment. German army was welcomed as saviours in many russian cities f.e Kiev. SOV soldiers surrendered in masses in 41.

German stupidity and cruelty caused that russians didnt have any choice but to fight.
 

Pyramid_Head

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SOV people didnt want to fight for SOV goverment. German army was welcomed as saviours in many russian cities f.e Kiev. SOV soldiers surrendered in masses in 41.

German stupidity and cruelty caused that russians didnt have any choice but to fight.
Yeah, sure, welcomed, didn't want to fight. Aren't you the one advertizing anti-communist pamphlet on forum's mod section?
 

Bambilambi

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One issue in my fights either as Russia or Germany is that the war is over by -42, at the latest. This is due to another problem in the game design. Once you break a line there is usually not much to stop a steamroll.
I think weather and running out of supply-range needs to be implemented more strongly. This will among other things force supply-stops better than just org-stops. perhaps the orgloss in low supply areas should be increased? This would also prolong wars over large areas and add a slight defenders advantage. What do you think? @podcat
 

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It comes from the nature of a game. Every SOV player knows GER will attack and amass huge amount of divisions there. There is no such things as a surprise attack from GER because we kinda know that the game is about a conflict revolving around those two countries. So it's usually a declaration, breakthrough, major encirclement and steamroll until victory. I have no idea how devs could fix it.
 

CrazyZombie

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It comes from the nature of a game. Every SOV player knows GER will attack and amass huge amount of divisions there. There is no such things as a surprise attack from GER because we kinda know that the game is about a conflict revolving around those two countries. So it's usually a declaration, breakthrough, major encirclement and steamroll until victory. I have no idea how devs could fix it.
Well, some elements of "historical alternatives" like anti-Hitler coup in Germany before war and it joining Allies in crusade against bolshevism or nationalist army coup in Soviet Union, leading to establishment of fascist regime, could add really "unexpected" situations. But we need focuses for this.

It is already interesting to look at British Commonwealth as it is turning to communist or nationalist paths, making every party a bit unpredictable.
 

Celdur

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One issue in my fights either as Russia or Germany is that the war is over by -42, at the latest. This is due to another problem in the game design. Once you break a line there is usually not much to stop a steamroll.
I think weather and running out of supply-range needs to be implemented more strongly. This will among other things force supply-stops better than just org-stops. perhaps the orgloss in low supply areas should be increased? This would also prolong wars over large areas and add a slight defenders advantage. What do you think? @podcat


Weather has to be implemented properly to simply halt all offensives which will buy many months to the war and will allow for redeployment. The other thing is supply, as it stands right now, any unit, even a tank can just advance hundreds of kilometers in a conga line without breaking down or running out of ammo and oil, which is why breakthroughs are so deadly.

I'm still perfecting the strategy but, rather than putting everything on the frontline I've created a new infantry division template "Trenches" massive amount of infantry with anti-tank, and just have them entrench behind the frontline, and then i set up another line behind that and another after that, while also setting independent strong-points in the marches and rivers, while my main army is at the frontline.

Basically I've made the entire eastern front a huge Kursk with my tanks and main army attacking and counterattacking while my "trenches" prevent breakthroughs or if anything gets through its not catastrophic and can allow me to counter-attack effectively.


The tricky part is to do it right and still supply your main army with enough equipment.
 

davej

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Looks historically correct, after all. Soviet Union at that time was not France, and was ready for a big fight.

True but they weren't ready for Barbarossa. Stalin did not believe Hitler would attack. If they were ready, the Germans wouldn't have gotten anywhere near as far as Moscow. They needed supplies from the allies in the beginning and had a lot of unnecessary casualties.

Yeah, sure, welcomed, didn't want to fight. Aren't you the one advertizing anti-communist pamphlet on forum's mod section?

Some of Ukraine welcomed the Nazis. They believed they were being liberated from Stalin.