Soviet Union strategy

[unmerged(49004)]

Alot of you people dont know to play HOI2 properly, and I thought I just try and get you guys tro grasp the basics with proper builds.

Basically in this thread Im going to go over kind of a testing program to try unveil the correct strategy for the Soviet Union intended for a multiplayer game. The run is going to be conducted in an SP game however. Alot of you guys, cant hit 500 IC, Im going to try and get you to be able to get a decent amount of IC,

The goals that I have by june 1941 are:

IC: 650+ IC my personal record is 680 hopefully I'll top that
Army size: around 450 divisions with brigades
Manpower: around 500 left

Synopsis:

Using this strategy:

Soviet Union will have small arms assembly line and some land doctrines completed, and will be building solely 1941 infantry.

The reason Im going to be using brigades is that the Soviet Union has an advantage over Germany in that it's organization regains at a much faster rate and it needs to have the ability to exploit this advantage. Also conserves precious manpower, as we're going to burn it all up.

IC building:

I plan on building 5 runs of IC. The majority of the IC will be done in about June 1940, and the rest will be scattered up to about november 1940.

Sliders:

Im going to differ from the wiki strategy and recommend hawk, hawk, int, int, than standing (forever). The hawk moves will help our ic finish quicker.

Trades:

basically

republican spain X 100- milk them like a cow
france
Poland
Germany

are the major countries I will be trading with. Just wanna basically focus on these countries.

Ministers:

Im going to make these changes, Uritskij –10% consumer goods, and Shaposhnikov +25% manpower –5% Infantry.

Military focus

Basically infantry and brigades starting in 1940, then in 41' when the MP is low cancel infantry and switch to an endless 20+ serials of T-34 tanks hopefully I'll have 100 T-34s by mid 42. Basically sacrificing air for ground. Possibly think of building air units in 1942.

Techs

Low low priority to air, focus on brigades, infantry, tanks and land docs. Start 41 inf in like August, as well as T-34s

To disband or not to disband

Im going to investigate both of these.

I would like to credit this strategy to the undefeated multi player user "Hiensen"

 

[Crilloan]

first question.

Do you plan for an eventual german aggression as early as may 1940?

or a hamstrung germany that are not allowed to attac until summer 41?

That makes a world of a difference in the build setup and research.

/crilloan



ps, I played through 1936 -sept 1939 about 15 times with sov before playing sov in mp. testing different build and research and minister strategies.

(had never played sov before and Im a compulsive planner with to much time)

 

[Juan_de_Marco]

bah. real men build ships as SU.

 

[Tukker]

Most german players will attack in 1940.

 

[unmerged(110255)]

Most german players will attack in 1940.

I thought OP's guidelines were meant for SP.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Build IC until 1939.
Then rush militia and add ART, AT, AA and maybe ENG and AC to them with a 4:2:2:1:1 ratio.
Overrun europe with.
Win.

 

[Gavriil]

bah. real men build ships as SU.

lol I always build some cruisers and dds

Not even sure what to do with 600ic

with 400 IC I have to build rocket sites and crap just to have somethnig to do

Not sure what the point of playing an automatic roll over game is

Alot of you people dont know to play HOI2 properly,

Im going to agree, though not in the way the OP thinks

 

[unmerged(56754)]

bah. real men build ships as SU.

Bah, real real men just build transports and Convoy escorts as SU.

 

[unmerged(49004)]

first question.

Do you plan for an eventual german aggression as early as may 1940?

or a hamstrung germany that are not allowed to attac until summer 41?

That makes a world of a difference in the build setup and research.

/crilloan



ps, I played through 1936 -sept 1939 about 15 times with sov before playing sov in mp. testing different build and research and minister strategies.

(had never played sov before and Im a compulsive planner with to much time)

Hi there. Im a compulsive planner as well. Its fun to talk strategy, Ive gone through playing Soviet Union about that many times as well.

The reason you assume 1941 about 99% of the time is its very easy to tell if Germany can attack or not, basically if France doesnt fall in 39' your good, which happens almost always. Axis and the Allies are pretty evenly matched in 1939. Germany has a very small window to take both Poland and France, a UK player will move all of Polands infantry to lublin-warsaw-lomza to delay the German victory in Poland. Germany has the majority of forces on the siegfried and tied up to beach duty in Kiel and probably wont be able to attack France until october in which point it has very little time (a matter of weeks) to take France before winter. UK usually builds about 1 run of IC and Germany 2.5-3 runs, so UK has been building units for alot longer and almost always has air superiority. If he attacks France in 1939 UK is going to bomb his infrastructure to 0 and its going to be that much harder in 1940 to get a head of steam going. So its very risky, if you have two similar skilled players, France hardly ever falls in 39', unless Germany doesnt build any IC and thats quite easy to see.

In multi player UK is just this monster for Germany, free market allows UK to build units like tanks and aircraft cheaper and faster than Germany, and they have more resources so they usually (like Soviet Union) have to produce 0 ic in supplies. It takes a while for Germany to put UK in his place, when France falls in 1940, he usually needs move on and attack republican spain to close the Mediterranean, if he doesnt, Italy will lose Sicily and the Italian isles and will probably be invaded and annexed. So its generally considered a mistake to turn around and attack Soviet Union in 1940 because 1) wasted like 3 months 2) the infestation of the UK menace.

Also, Soviet Union is very weak in 1940, if UK player messes up and loses France chances are its going to be an Axis victory anyway, and its going to be very difficult to stop him. Generally what I do when I see the signs of an 1940 attack, (ie France falls in 1939) I upgrade that junk and try and play a little cat and mouse and hope UK lands. If he's good enough to take France in 39' chances are he's not going to pull a blue emu and attack you in 1940 anyway because its considered cheap unless you piss him off and dont sell him rares or bring socialism to finland. Also he can inflict some serious damage to UK in 1940 thats probably more beneficial to him.

 

[unmerged(49004)]

Im sure alot of you people think that a 1940 attack on Russia happens all the time from reading Blue Emu, but in the real world in rarely happens, UK only has to stop him for like a month, and has been building for like twice the time to deny him France. Also in both Hiensens rules and Aussie rules that brings United States into the war sooner (like 6 months) if Germany attacks Russia in 1940.

So starting out in 1936, we have really no choice but to kill the dissent

After you've finished killing the dissent in like april, you start your IC runs, notice it says it will be done in dec 1940, which isn't a very good estimate because the Hawk sliders moves change that.

 

[unmerged(105974)]

I'd argue it's you that doesn't know how to play properly. Why do you NEED 5 runs of IC? While the chances of Germany attacking in 1940 aren't very high assuming you have competant allied players, it is still possible.

Hell, if I saw you building 5x runs of IC, I'd probably attack you BEFORE I took France, which would be before you've had chance to build up a huge amount of armoured forces. This would happen in May 1940, when you think I'll be invading France but I'm actually going to be invading you. Sure, there won't be a bitter peace, but that's no problem when I can just drive all the way to Vladivostok with only 120 divisions to oppose me.

Go for 4 runs, then start building infantry and planes. That way you're not totally screwed if Germany does go for the 1940 attack, and you'll still have enough IC to do whatever you want anyway.

 

[Orm]

The reason Im going to be using brigades is that the Soviet Union has an advantage over Germany in that it's organization regains at a much faster rate and it needs to have the ability to exploit this advantage.

I was under the impression that had been shown to be false; although the higher morale for SU means faster ORG regain, the germans still have a faster ORG regain because of the higher max ORG.

 

[unmerged(110255)]

Collection of Laissez Faire spellings

I like that idea. Seeing how many of the users around here are very liberal when it comes to spelling, I've been having a hard time showing restraint instead of showing how much of a spelling and grammar Nazi I can be. I don't know how long I'll be able to keep it up...

 

[Laurwin]

I'd argue it's you that doesn't know how to play properly. Why do you NEED 5 runs of IC? While the chances of Germany attacking in 1940 aren't very high assuming you have competant allied players, it is still possible.

Hell, if I saw you building 5x runs of IC, I'd probably attack you BEFORE I took France, which would be before you've had chance to build up a huge amount of armoured forces. This would happen in May 1940, when you think I'll be invading France but I'm actually going to be invading you. Sure, there won't be a bitter peace, but that's no problem when I can just drive all the way to Vladivostok with only 120 divisions to oppose me.

Go for 4 runs, then start building infantry and planes. That way you're not totally screwed if Germany does go for the 1940 attack, and you'll still have enough IC to do whatever you want anyway.

This thought also crossed my mind as i started yet another mindless game of A.I bashing with germany :wacko:

granted, I did some blue emu style anchluss-all moves pre war, but I'd reckon that you could still get some 21 panzers w/basic sp-arty on the field by late fall/winter 1939.

together with 4 FTR serials rolling, 2 CAS rolling (significant gearing here), 9 infantry series rolling. With some 120 divs at the start of the war in total, 24 FTR II, 12 cas, 12 TAC

 

[unmerged(49004)]

I'd argue it's you that doesn't know how to play properly. Why do you NEED 5 runs of IC? While the chances of Germany attacking in 1940 aren't very high assuming you have competant allied players, it is still possible.

Well like I said, you have 41 infantry completed by then, plus small arms assembly line and some land docs, all making it much cheaper and efficient to build units, its the ideal time, and Soviet Unions peak to develop units. Its a waste of supplies having a big army in 1940 because an attack is doubtful and you havent hit your production peak yet. I will have a very large force at the end of this little aar.

Hell, if I saw you building 5x runs of IC, I'd probably attack you BEFORE I took France, which would be before you've had chance to build up a huge amount of armoured forces.

You're not really serious are you? You want UK out of France asap, because 1) they have air superiority over you and can bomb you to death. 2) Allied forces (UK controls the entire common wealth Canada, France, Australia, Iraq, Yemen, Bhutan, South Africa) are like about 250 units with 30-40 tanks in 1940. So you've got to put about 125 divisions or so on the siegfried and Kiel and hope that, that holds them and thats lol for your Barbarossa force. Most likely UK will find some hole in your defense and bomb you to death when they start retreating and youll quickly surrender. 120 units combined with the allied 250 ish will be plenty for your force, and you've given USA a nice beach head who will be in the war 6 months sooner because you broke the Mol-rib pact. And you cant end the war with the Soviet Union who has like 500 ic in siberia with plenty of unused reserves. Its not a viable option.

 

[Laurwin]

true, but its not always allowed to mil control france (or even poland) or to even bring commonwealth troops to france (other than UKs own troops)

strat bombing part of that is valid though, i dunno whether TACs are that good in that particular role, but youre gotta have leave lots of air units in germany to defend... UK doesnt always build strats either though?

argh enough of this ramblin! lets try not be so nitpicky and enjoy the AAR...

 

[unmerged(110676)]

List of requirements needed to win as the soviet union.

• Soviet Union

 

[unmerged(78087)]

List of requirements needed to win as the soviet union.

• Soviet Union

And ice cream. Lots of ice cream.



German AI sucks big time. Playing HSR I was dowed by Germany after Bessarabia event. I had about 150-200 INF with 15 org and 16 CAS and it was no problem to hold the line and eventually with reinforcements push them back.


PS. Loved that grammar Nazi pic

 

[unmerged(105974)]

I'm not suggesting 5 runs isn't better...so long as you KNOW Germany isn't going to be attacking in 1940.

However, in multiplayer, you don't know that for sure. The German player can easily have all his manpower spent by Danzig, while you're still churning out factories. Under the circumstances, it wouldn't be entirely out of the question to just stick 50 units in each province bordering the maginot line (this is more than enough as the allied troops suck until they get their 1942 infantry doctrines). Leave 30 in each Italian province, ally with Hungary and Bulgaria, and you should have a good 300 divisions facing you down, maybe more if Finland/Romania can be persuaded to join the axis.

Against what? 120 outdated divisions with a crap doctrine, and a bunch of factories? I'll take my odds anyday. There'd be panzers at Sverdlovsk about as fast as panzers could move. You'd be overrun in 2 months, and would probably by the end of the year be at around Novasibersk/Omsk.

Any German divisions produced after the invasion of the Soviets starts can be used to reinforce the western front. By mid 1942 the Soviets will be annexed, and all troops can then be deployed for the battle of France. This would actually prove to be the major campaign, as the USA will have reinforced the area by then. Nethertheless, Germany and Italy would probably win in the end, given Germany now has a massive manpower income from annexing the Soviet Union.

 

[Laurwin]

Nethertheless, Germany and Italy would probably win in the end, given Germany now has a massive manpower income from annexing the Soviet Union.

and shiteloads of partisan problems though :wacko: