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You did a lot of Strat and missiles? But how could you stop the soviet endless units?
Warning: Rant
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Dealing with mass free units is easy:
1. Grinding them into oblivion - casualty rates of 2-1 to 10-1 in Germany's favor.
2. Encircling + starving - casualty rates in excess of 10-1 in Germany's favor.
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Free units don't preclude you from winning in 1942, and you still have a chance of winning in 1943. Let's estimate some numbers ...
Let's assume the Soviets bring 300 divisions to the front each year (build+free), 1 German Division = 2 Soviet, and 1 Minor = 1 Soviet.
1941 - 160-200 German + 60-90 Minors Divisions vs. 300-350 Soviet divisions.
Axis strength advantage in 1941 -> 180*2+75-325= 110 Divisions -> easy to push.
In 1941, Soviets lose 150-200 divisions.
1942 - 180-220 German + 70-100 Minors Divisions vs. 325-175+300= 450 Soviet divisions.
Axis strength advantage in 1942 -> 200*2+85-450= 35 Divisions -> fairly easy to push.
in 1942, Soviets lose 50-100 divisions.
1943 - 200-240 German + 80-110 Minors Divisions vs. 450-75+300= 675 Soviet divisions. Soviet
Axis strength disadvantage in 1943 -> 220*2+95 - 675 = -140 -> difficult to push.
Soviet number are still realistic ~7m on the front IRL.
You only start getting screwed in 1943, and even then it's not v. clear... if in 1943 you have Stalingrad/Leningrad + Caucuses, you can cede some useless land to get Moscow, or if you need Stalingrad, to get Stalingrad, etc... So the point is, even with free units, it's not unrealistically hard.
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There are many good reasons Germany lost WWII, and virtually unlimited Soviet manpower and equipment was only one of them. At least four other reasons are only weakly implemented in DH - in particular, supply systems are not modeled well (benefiting Germany/Japan in particular), the AI UK/USA have no chance of landing in Europe vs. a human player (benefiting human Germany), partisans are a minor nuisance (esp. French ones... jeez) and occupied dissent impacts on your TC can be significantly mitigated with a few dozen extremely cheap garrison divisions. Oil is almost never an issue for a historically-balanced Germany player (i.e. don't spam ARM/MOT)- you can easily stockpile before war, and even when war starts you can get a ton from conversion, USSR (before 1941), Romania, Italy, Venezuela, Persia, etc (because hey!, Germany should be able to import Oil from Persia in 1942 (sarcasm)).
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My point is... human Germany (and AI Germany to some degree) has it too easy as-is, and the quasi-historical free units on the Eastern Front are one of the few real challenges for Germany. Just stop them in 1943 or once SOV has 600 divisions.
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Dealing with mass free units is easy:
1. Grinding them into oblivion - casualty rates of 2-1 to 10-1 in Germany's favor.
2. Encircling + starving - casualty rates in excess of 10-1 in Germany's favor.
----
Free units don't preclude you from winning in 1942, and you still have a chance of winning in 1943. Let's estimate some numbers ...
Let's assume the Soviets bring 300 divisions to the front each year (build+free), 1 German Division = 2 Soviet, and 1 Minor = 1 Soviet.
1941 - 160-200 German + 60-90 Minors Divisions vs. 300-350 Soviet divisions.
Axis strength advantage in 1941 -> 180*2+75-325= 110 Divisions -> easy to push.
In 1941, Soviets lose 150-200 divisions.
1942 - 180-220 German + 70-100 Minors Divisions vs. 325-175+300= 450 Soviet divisions.
Axis strength advantage in 1942 -> 200*2+85-450= 35 Divisions -> fairly easy to push.
in 1942, Soviets lose 50-100 divisions.
1943 - 200-240 German + 80-110 Minors Divisions vs. 450-75+300= 675 Soviet divisions. Soviet
Axis strength disadvantage in 1943 -> 220*2+95 - 675 = -140 -> difficult to push.
Soviet number are still realistic ~7m on the front IRL.
You only start getting screwed in 1943, and even then it's not v. clear... if in 1943 you have Stalingrad/Leningrad + Caucuses, you can cede some useless land to get Moscow, or if you need Stalingrad, to get Stalingrad, etc... So the point is, even with free units, it's not unrealistically hard.
---
There are many good reasons Germany lost WWII, and virtually unlimited Soviet manpower and equipment was only one of them. At least four other reasons are only weakly implemented in DH - in particular, supply systems are not modeled well (benefiting Germany/Japan in particular), the AI UK/USA have no chance of landing in Europe vs. a human player (benefiting human Germany), partisans are a minor nuisance (esp. French ones... jeez) and occupied dissent impacts on your TC can be significantly mitigated with a few dozen extremely cheap garrison divisions. Oil is almost never an issue for a historically-balanced Germany player (i.e. don't spam ARM/MOT)- you can easily stockpile before war, and even when war starts you can get a ton from conversion, USSR (before 1941), Romania, Italy, Venezuela, Persia, etc (because hey!, Germany should be able to import Oil from Persia in 1942 (sarcasm)).
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My point is... human Germany (and AI Germany to some degree) has it too easy as-is, and the quasi-historical free units on the Eastern Front are one of the few real challenges for Germany. Just stop them in 1943 or once SOV has 600 divisions.
1 German division = 2 Soviet : wrong, totally wrong after GPW event.
Free soviets units are 1942 infantery unit with artillery brigade. And don't forget those ground/weather/speed bonuses. One of this division will beat quite easily an 1936 or 39 german infantery division without artillery, even entrenched.
I have already seen 40 soviet divisions, mostly of them militia, driving out 20 infantery divisions, some with artillery, entrenched in Kiew (so urban zone). So I can't agree with your conclusions.
Free soviets units are 1942 infantery unit with artillery brigade. And don't forget those ground/weather/speed bonuses. One of this division will beat quite easily an 1936 or 39 german infantery division without artillery, even entrenched.
I have already seen 40 soviet divisions, mostly of them militia, driving out 20 infantery divisions, some with artillery, entrenched in Kiew (so urban zone). So I can't agree with your conclusions.
No problem 
But unfortunately, I have erased this save with a new attempt (15th or 16th maybe) with Germany, played to 1940 and after that I saw that a new patch was on the way and I decided tol wait (really, no bad apologize)
But unfortunately, I have erased this save with a new attempt (15th or 16th maybe) with Germany, played to 1940 and after that I saw that a new patch was on the way and I decided tol wait (really, no bad apologize
)Go around them? Even after the first winter you can easily beat the soviets back. I've failed in 41 and all it takes is 1 encirclement in 42 when the weather clears and the soviets are done. German units are far superior even with any bonuses, although the soviets can manage to push back a little in the winter.
No problem
But unfortunately, I have erased this save with a new attempt (15th or 16th maybe) with Germany, played to 1940 and after that I saw that a new patch was on the way and I decided tol wait (really, no bad apologize
Poo... by the way, when I say 1 German division = 2 Soviet, I mean exactly that... Due to 1) GDE, 2) Combat event chances, and 3) HQ event chance multipliers. Also due to the reasons I mentioned above - no good supply system, occupied dissent weaknesses, etc.
Observations that lead me to believe 2:1 ratio is correct:
AI Germany vs. AI Soviet - look at the casualty rate, it's between 2-1 to 5-1, which is historical for 1941. However, AI SOV often can't produce units fast enough to halt German advance, and if it can, it can rarely attack in Winter 1941. In hands-off games, I've often seen Soviets lose Leningrad and Moscow in 1941. I've rarely seen USSR win the war, and IIRC, it usually didn't get a lot of Eastern Europe when it did (one time, USA manged to get most of Ukraine (this may be an AI issue with GER not redeploying troops to stop USA landings in Balkans + no Athens garrison).
Human Germany vs. AI Soviet - 1 German division = 2 Soviet at a minimum. GPW bonuses are mitigated because, at a minimum, 1) AI can't plan offensives, while human can, 2) AI can't encircle well, while human can, 3) AI is subject to Verdun effect, when human isn't. 4) Human can structure efficient build que, but AI can't.
IMO, play multiplayer Germany vs. USSR, with June 1941 war start. I'll bet you that the human player can keep just as many, if not more troops on the front than can AI with cheats, especially with proper defense in depth. (P.S.: Until 1943)
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I would prefer the soviets receiving free units(because that just happened; they rebuild the entire red army after the massive loses in the first year of war), than seeing them receiving mega performance bonuses. Uber Ivans are extremely annoying, it's neither fun or historical to see my mech division being pushed back by vanilla, outdated infantry, just because the later gained ahistorical buffs.
If anything, german industry needs to be nerfed, to make impossible for the german player to keep production with the URSS.
If anything, german industry needs to be nerfed, to make impossible for the german player to keep production with the URSS.
I still don't agree, because :
1) look at the stats, 1942 soviet infantery with artillery is far more efficient than 1936 or 39 infantery without brigade. In fact, on the paper after GPW 1 soviet division = 2 german divisions. I maintain 1= 1 however, because Human is smarter
2) Although GDE is much better for Germans, Soviet org is higher. It's an huge advantage especially in offensive. Sure, germans have less casualty. But their divisions are stuck in provinces with very low infra, and AI know quite well how to make endless attacks which are exhausting at the end German divisions.
Besides, I read again your calculations and I didn't see the same. I already destroyed 400 divisions in one year and half. Soviets have still 500, with 300 at the start. So they built in 1 and half year 600 divisions! Due partlmy to the very quick build-time of militia. Ans since militia is very effective in this game,at least for soviets...That's insane. Even if Human is smart, after one point sheer number matter. Even the most experienced player can't defeat Germany with Luxemburg.
Of course I do encirclement. But after the russian winter, with Panzer beaten by militia, my encirclements fails quite always. I don't say it is impossible, but it asks gamey tactics ore very skilled player who is trying for the 20th time. At this point, it should be leaved to very hard difficulty in my opinion...
Sorry to say so, but this should come to difficulty setting, on normal this game is virtually impossible to win against the Soviet bear. Taking France out is quite easy to accomplish, the UK is very hard (that sounds reasonable), but on normal setting taking out the USSR shouldn't be that hard (with all the hindsight, optimisation etc.)
Don't agree... IMHO, and with my playing experience, USSR is way to easy to beat.
The reason : with optimisation, I can have an huge an ahistorical Wehrmacht, and the soviet AI have no chance against this, even if I let it recover during Winter!
The problem remain the same in multiplayer : I tested some 1v1 with one other skilled player, and we agreed that in 1v1, the soviet stand no chance if the players are about the same lvl.
The reason behind this issue is the possibility for the german player to use 2/3 of his manpower even before barbarossa, consequence of an over-optimised IC production. This is indeed the same for the russian one, but he can't fully mobilize without using exploits (total mob for poland/finland) so with GDE difference and no bonuses for the player, whatever he's doing, he won't match the Wehrmacht full strength.
The reason : with optimisation, I can have an huge an ahistorical Wehrmacht, and the soviet AI have no chance against this, even if I let it recover during Winter!
The problem remain the same in multiplayer : I tested some 1v1 with one other skilled player, and we agreed that in 1v1, the soviet stand no chance if the players are about the same lvl.
The reason behind this issue is the possibility for the german player to use 2/3 of his manpower even before barbarossa, consequence of an over-optimised IC production. This is indeed the same for the russian one, but he can't fully mobilize without using exploits (total mob for poland/finland) so with GDE difference and no bonuses for the player, whatever he's doing, he won't match the Wehrmacht full strength.
Of course, since the beginning, we are speaking of an human player who avoid to use gamey tactics (mot rush to Moscow) and try to build quite historical.
And Barbarossa in Spring or Summer 1941. Early Barbarossa is also easier.
I agree with KaiserBeer - I would prefer the soviets receiving free units (they rebuilt the entire red army after the massive loses in the first year of war), than seeing them receiving mega performance bonuses.
Free units in 41'and beyond at existing tech levels would correctly represent the massive Soviet Reserve Armies.
Performance bonuses for USSR should begin in 43'.
Free units in 41'and beyond at existing tech levels would correctly represent the massive Soviet Reserve Armies.
Performance bonuses for USSR should begin in 43'.
By 1943 Manpower Doctrine is already good enough to trash the Wehrmacht. No need to add more ahistorical buffs.
I'll take your word for it as I am new to DH. Haven't played past 1937 yet. It makes historic sense though.
1943 saw very important changes as to how the Red Army fought "the Summer Germans".
1943 saw very important changes as to how the Red Army fought "the Summer Germans".
Ok... maybe nerf GPW a bit... how about this?
Instead of infinite 1942 Infantry + Artillery spam, give this:
1941 - Stops Soviet front from collapsing, guarantee Moscow gets a priority defense, allow for Soviet Winter offensive.
1. To stop front from collapsing, 250 free 1936 Mil + 10 free 1941 Arm divisions for September-December 1941.
2. To simulate Soviet defensive preparations around Moscow in Winter 1941, Lvl-5 forts + 30 locked 1939 Inf/Mtn+Arty around Moscow when player passes Smolensk.
3. To allow for Soviet Winter Offensive, short (1-2 month) buff to attack - idk... 20-25% attack.
1942 - Soviets keep churning out Militias and rebuilding army
1. 200 Free 1936 Mil + 10 free 1941 Arm + SpArt divisions for January - May 1942.
2. 150 Free 1936 Mil + Arty + 10 free 1943 Arm + SpArt divisions for June - December 1943.
1943 - Final Soviet free units, leaving player a chance to win if they've done well in 1941 and 1942.
1. 100 Free Inf 1942 + Arty + 20 free 1943 Arm for January 1943 - May 1943.
Total free stuff:
1941 - 2.5m Militia, 0.6m Moscow good defense units (Inf/Mtn/Art), ~3.0k Tanks
1942 - 3.5m Militia, 0.7m good troops (Arm/Art/Spart), ~6.0k Tanks
1943 - 1.7m good troops (Inf/Art), ~6.0k Tanks
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6m Militia, 3m Inf/Art/Mtn/Arm/SpArt, 12k Tanks
Hopefully prevents easy 1941 victory, helps make 1942 even, and 1943 hard for Germany.
That's it... no infinite unit spam, no buffs (except Winter 1941). If human fails to win by 1942 mud season, Soviets will be very strong by 1943. From then on, human has 1-2 years to win vs. a full-forced, but not cheating AI Soviets.
Fair? Modifications? Ofc. probably nothing we suggest here will be introduced in 1.04, but a small balance mod can be released w/ changes for whomever is interested.
Instead of infinite 1942 Infantry + Artillery spam, give this:
1941 - Stops Soviet front from collapsing, guarantee Moscow gets a priority defense, allow for Soviet Winter offensive.
1. To stop front from collapsing, 250 free 1936 Mil + 10 free 1941 Arm divisions for September-December 1941.
2. To simulate Soviet defensive preparations around Moscow in Winter 1941, Lvl-5 forts + 30 locked 1939 Inf/Mtn+Arty around Moscow when player passes Smolensk.
3. To allow for Soviet Winter Offensive, short (1-2 month) buff to attack - idk... 20-25% attack.
1942 - Soviets keep churning out Militias and rebuilding army
1. 200 Free 1936 Mil + 10 free 1941 Arm + SpArt divisions for January - May 1942.
2. 150 Free 1936 Mil + Arty + 10 free 1943 Arm + SpArt divisions for June - December 1943.
1943 - Final Soviet free units, leaving player a chance to win if they've done well in 1941 and 1942.
1. 100 Free Inf 1942 + Arty + 20 free 1943 Arm for January 1943 - May 1943.
Total free stuff:
1941 - 2.5m Militia, 0.6m Moscow good defense units (Inf/Mtn/Art), ~3.0k Tanks
1942 - 3.5m Militia, 0.7m good troops (Arm/Art/Spart), ~6.0k Tanks
1943 - 1.7m good troops (Inf/Art), ~6.0k Tanks
-----------------------------------------------
6m Militia, 3m Inf/Art/Mtn/Arm/SpArt, 12k Tanks
Hopefully prevents easy 1941 victory, helps make 1942 even, and 1943 hard for Germany.
That's it... no infinite unit spam, no buffs (except Winter 1941). If human fails to win by 1942 mud season, Soviets will be very strong by 1943. From then on, human has 1-2 years to win vs. a full-forced, but not cheating AI Soviets.
Fair? Modifications? Ofc. probably nothing we suggest here will be introduced in 1.04, but a small balance mod can be released w/ changes for whomever is interested.
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Maybe try my mini-mod : http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?798717-Very-minor-1933-Tweaks
+ Terrain and morale bonuses in Great Patriotic War event ( against human Germany ) were removed. Wartime IC bonus was reduced from 60 to 25. 25 bonus makes it default 1.0. Number of cheap Soviet units were slightly increased to compensate other changes.
With my change, Soviets will not have some free fighting bonuses but they will have slighltly more troops to represent Soviet mobilization and to give human player more challenge.
Nice work there. You've fixed a lot of annoying issues and balance problems for a variety of countries. Chears!
Alas, I disagree with your nerfs to USSR:
25% IC: 25% IC only balances out the -25% nerf the USSR gets so it doesn't produce too much IC and forces pre-war. It's not a buff. As it stands, human Germany outproduces +60% AI USSR. Part of this is that human Germany tends to push central planning, so USSR does not get a relative +25% IC. Another part is that in the opposite to what happened in history, human Germany’s production queue tends to be much more efficient than the USSR production queue (at best, it’s equally inefficient), both in not wasting IC on useless brigades and units, and in taking advantage of gearing bonus, which USSR AI neither has the time to, nor the ability to use. Finally, Germany gets a historical +20% Speer. In the context of the above, the +60% for USSR is necessary, and still too little to allow for historical relative production levels, even with production time reductions in the Manpower doctrine tree. That’s why there is a need for such a large unit spam.
Unit Spam: IMO, Ideally the unit spam should be reduced, say to 600-700 divisions of variable quality (not only militia; where are the massive Soviet tank armies?), and rebalanced to hit earlier, so that USSR has a good chance of surviving into 1942.
GPW Combat Buffs: I don’t like unit-level imbalances. However, I would prefer some form of frozen/blizzard buff to represent the fact that Soviet uniforms/arms/equipment were better able to handle the Russian winter than their German counterparts.
Alas, I disagree with your nerfs to USSR:
25% IC: 25% IC only balances out the -25% nerf the USSR gets so it doesn't produce too much IC and forces pre-war. It's not a buff. As it stands, human Germany outproduces +60% AI USSR. Part of this is that human Germany tends to push central planning, so USSR does not get a relative +25% IC. Another part is that in the opposite to what happened in history, human Germany’s production queue tends to be much more efficient than the USSR production queue (at best, it’s equally inefficient), both in not wasting IC on useless brigades and units, and in taking advantage of gearing bonus, which USSR AI neither has the time to, nor the ability to use. Finally, Germany gets a historical +20% Speer. In the context of the above, the +60% for USSR is necessary, and still too little to allow for historical relative production levels, even with production time reductions in the Manpower doctrine tree. That’s why there is a need for such a large unit spam.
Unit Spam: IMO, Ideally the unit spam should be reduced, say to 600-700 divisions of variable quality (not only militia; where are the massive Soviet tank armies?), and rebalanced to hit earlier, so that USSR has a good chance of surviving into 1942.
GPW Combat Buffs: I don’t like unit-level imbalances. However, I would prefer some form of frozen/blizzard buff to represent the fact that Soviet uniforms/arms/equipment were better able to handle the Russian winter than their German counterparts.