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Secret Master

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Let's be honest about practical knowledge for a moment:

1) Practical knowledge can only decay so far. It cannot get any lower than 0 (which gives a modest penalty to unit build costs).

2) Practical knowledge reaches diminishing returns fairly quickly.

3) More IC = more practicals in the long run.

It's not just a Soviet thing. There is simply a finite amount of practical knowledge you can get; it can only have a finite impact on your build costs.

Consider this screenshot from my infamous "Meet US build quotas by the end of the war" game:



I have never been able to reduce the price of anything by more than that. And that requires a combination of building tons of IC before the war and then spamming around 100 STR wings until V-J Day. It's a massive reduction, no doubt about that. But thanks to diminishing returns, it took years to get to that level. Most IC savings are never on par with that and by that time the war should be over.

The thing with practicals is that if you don't build any units for a couple of years, you certainly do lose practical knowledge. But the loss is not catastrophic compared to gaining 100% more IC. And construction practicals exist, too. They also boost construction research. That means that, even though the Soviets start with lousy IC techs, a few rounds of IC building will make them just as efficient as Germany or the US. The lost practicals don't end up comparing to extra IC you can use to build stuff.

Now, what about research times? Well, here's the catch. If you don't bother trying to catch up technologically until you have practical knowledge anyway, it's not big deal. Most ground units complete fairly quickly, so getting practicals in place to research stuff isn't as hard as it sounds. As for aircraft, there is that huge tech gap between basic aircraft techs in 1936 and 1939 techs, so why bother wasting precious Soviet leadership on ahead of time penalties? Especially when you can have twice as many wings as Germany ready for Barbarossa after spamming IC. Even if Germany is ahead in some aircraft tech categories, it won't offset superior numbers.

If your practicals are low to begin with (most countries in HOI3 start with low practicals), the decay from delaying unit production isn't that bad.
 

KyrionMyrthar

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Ive been playing that alot lately as well...

With limited exceptions, I've been using the AI as the Soviets almost exclusively. I left one front on manual control this past time - my Kyiv one, which I was using to fill holes/punch through other areas the AI was leaving alone. I also leave aircraft under my control, attached to the big HQs, and use the Fronts for AI.
 

21oliver

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The biggest advantage the Soviets have is one they share with the US (although the USA's isolation adds to it even further) in that they know they have a minimum of 5 years to prepare for war. Thats alot of time to make up any and all deficiencies. You have the ability to do almost anything you want with the Soviets.
 

21oliver

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I almost never manually handle my offenses. Only in places where a) its a simple conquest (ie. move units from point a to point b, capture VP etc..) and b) where the AI has trouble with the geography (Norway, Finland etc...). Otheriwse i always use the AI, its sort of my house rule.
 

am300307

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Winning as USSR and Germany on Very Hard is my goal atm. Did both with hard.
 

21oliver

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I personally tend to play norm more often. Mostly its for philosophical reasons, i would like the game to be as close to historical accurate as possible, the current game already is a stretch but when we start nerfing and buffing imo its almost no longer a WW2 game but simply a war game. On top of this in some cases the nerfs and buffs dont work as intended. For example, your going to nerf Germany's resources? so what, your doubling the Soviets resources, whom already had more then enough, and they are willing to give Germany whatever they want...
 

Secret Master

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I realized we had multiple Soviet Union IC threads going on in the forum, so I went ahead and merged them. I also modified the title a bit to clarify what we were talking about.

Just cleaning up a bit of clutter; feel free to carry on the Soviet IC discussion.
 

KyrionMyrthar

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^^

I think some of us are just really getting into the toys that the Soviets give you. I remember the first time I played them, I had zero idea of what I was doing and nearly got stomped, pretty much following the historical timeline.

Now it's all about exploring things. Oh, Persia, you look lovely to me. So do you, Turkey, Romania and Bulgaria. I'll take that Black Sea bonus thankyouverymuch.

I've gone a bit nuts in my latest just for kicks - every province around Manchuria is being upgraded to level 10 Infra and forts, along with maxed-out AA in Kraskino since the Japanese love to hit me there. Thing is, Germany just invaded Poland in March '39 when the Czechs opted to fight... no M-R pact. I have an opportunity to grab Romania now, as I still can't attack Finland. Hungary is firmly in the Axis camp, so even though I'm not quite ready, I may launch in August once my upgrades are done.
 

21oliver

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Yeah it seems im in search of the "perfect Soviet Union game" constantly retrying different approaches...


As i search for my perfect Soviet game (perfect in my eyes!) the 400 base IC keeps calling me to my demise like some siren....so once again i give it a shot. I have to 1) get my trade correct 2) get my builds & forces correct and 3) modernize (rockets, nukes etc...) and get my new navy (delete existing ships) rolling along. I like to be patient and let the war come to me or at the very least hold off until 1943sh then go on a rampage. My house rules are pretty much let the Ai handle all combat unless its in a location it has trouble, no aggression until after i finish off Finland (Puppet) at the historical date. My only aggression then will be to puppet Sinkiang & Afghanistan.

Ok so far im getting what i want done with no major issues (Officer ratio is a bit low, im working on it!)

123_zps8ef3ec85.png
[/URL][/IMG]

This is what i have;

Western Front HQ
100 INF Divisions, 25 Mot INF Divisions, 25 Arm Divisions, 22 Harm Divisions (3 more almost done)
INTx10 TACx10 MRx10 CASx10

Far Eastern Front HQ & Middle Eastern Front HQ each have;
25 INF Divisions, 10 MTN Divisions, 5 MOT Divisions, 5 Arm Divisions
INTx5 TACx5 MRx5 CASx5

INF Corps consist of INFx3/ART, INFx3/ART, INFx3/AT, INFx3/AA, INFx3/ENG
MTN Divisions are MTNx4
ARM Divisions are Arm/Motx2/Spart
HARM Divisions are Harm/Mechx2/Spart
MOT Corps consist of MOTx2/Spart/TD, MOTx2/Spart/TD, MOTx2/Spart/TD, Motx2/Spart/Mot AA, Motx2/Spart/Eng

Navy is progressing along (this includes what is in the queue);

1934 builds = CVx1, CVLx1, BBx1, BCx1, CAx1, CLx2, DDx2, SSx2
1936 builds = CVx2, CVLx2, BBx2, BCx2, CAx2, CLx4, DDx4
1937 builds = SSx4
1938 builds = SHBBx2, BBx4

LC x10

Time for war! :D
 
Last edited:

Loerst

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I love playing as SU but my problem is I find it all too easy. Any suggestions? I had an idea to start in '41 and on day one disband 50 % of entire army and declare war on entire world (on absolutely everyone).

Is there any mod which is focused on SU?
 

KyrionMyrthar

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I love playing as SU but my problem is I find it all too easy. Any suggestions? I had an idea to start in '41 and on day one disband 50 % of entire army and declare war on entire world (on absolutely everyone).

Is there any mod which is focused on SU?

Not specifically that I'm aware of. I haven't done more than a few minutes in HPP as the Soviets, but that's a super fun mod if you haven't tried it. Lots of cool divergences from the historical timeline are possible.
 

Secret Master

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The thing about the Soviet Union is that of course it's easy; the Soviets became a superpower at the end of the war. And they became a superpower at the end of a war that cost millions of lives and that consumed a huge percentage of their GDP for years on end.

If you even just follow the historical path, you should end up being powerful and a dominant power. But human players in HOI3 are much more efficient than their historical counterparts. Just knowing that the Germans are coming in the middle of 1941 gives you a huge advantage. Also, knowing that the Japanese aren't coming across the border in Manchuria if you just keep some basic forces in the Far East makes the game easy.

Short of either giving yourself additional goals or deliberately acting stupid, there's not a lot you can do to make the game harder as the Soviets. That being said, trying to build a navy so you can take Japan out before the US grabs them can make for an interesting challenge.
 

misterbean

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I once gave myself a severe handicap by going for the RL OOB as close as possible by 1941 and playing on AI control. When the Germans called, just like RL, they pretty much devoured most of my army. I ate through my entire MP pool. Twice. And that is with the wartime decisions. It took me until early 1943 to push them all the way back to Poland. Fun times.
 

Charles Reeps

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Here is a fun strategy: puppet Finland, conquer Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Turkey before February (roughly), 1940. Also puppet Greece before Italy fires the Ultimatum to Greece. The former moves give you Strategic Effects increasing resources and leadership. The latter move against Greece will allow you to be in a permanent state of war as soon as Italy DOWs Greece. This will be a limited war so Germany and Japan will stay neutral, thus giving you the chance to conquer Italy.

BTW: you should probably build two battleships, a couple of CVLs and enough escorts to take out the Italian navy. This is easy enough to do even as you are IC whoring. You also wind up having enough extra leadership to make up for what you "wasted" getting the extra naval assets. By the time Germany should fire Barbarossa you are so strong it won't. This strategy allows for a steamroller on the ground, plus a navy large enough to grab Japan right out from under the nose of the Allies.
 

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Here is a fun strategy: puppet Finland, conquer Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Turkey before February (roughly), 1940. Also puppet Greece before Italy fires the Ultimatum to Greece. The former moves give you Strategic Effects increasing resources and leadership. The latter move against Greece will allow you to be in a permanent state of war as soon as Italy DOWs Greece. This will be a limited war so Germany and Japan will stay neutral, thus giving you the chance to conquer Italy.

BTW: you should probably build two battleships, a couple of CVLs and enough escorts to take out the Italian navy. This is easy enough to do even as you are IC whoring. You also wind up having enough extra leadership to make up for what you "wasted" getting the extra naval assets. By the time Germany should fire Barbarossa you are so strong it won't. This strategy allows for a steamroller on the ground, plus a navy large enough to grab Japan right out from under the nose of the Allies.

And it makes for an impossibly large front, when seen from the German side. Nice. Do the allies ever get antsy about that sort of stuff?
 

21oliver

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The size of the front is exactly the reason unlike others i enlist as many allies as possible when playing Germany. Rather then complaining about how horrible minors are, i want every nation i can get on the Soviet border. There is nothing i enjoy more then watching Soviet units rip deep into Persia, Turkey etc... As i run over their western front and Japan gobbles up the east.
 

Charles Reeps

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And it makes for an impossibly large front, when seen from the German side. Nice. Do the allies ever get antsy about that sort of stuff?

Rarely, but you have to make sure you don't start going to war until September, 1939. This way the Allies are already at war with Germany and won't take on the added burden of fighting you. One of the biggest problems with this strategy is your officer ratio. Going to war early doesn't give you much time to get it to more than roughly 98%. Luckily you will only be fighting minors and Italy to start so you have plenty of time to raise it for the main event.