Soviet Union AI will it attack Poland with Germany?

[Rugsejis]

The question is will the Soviet Union AI in HOI4 attack Poland with Germany?
Since I remember when I watched a HOI2 Lets Play a couple of years ago, the Russian guy commenting on the game, told:
You see the Soviet Union never attacked Poland, and HOI2 shows it, and something about Western propaganda, that the West is lying about the attack of Poland.
I have never played HOI, but I think the attack from the both sides, should be in the game for the AI.

Also why do we get so much censorship on the game (with Hitler and the Swastika?). Maybe it would make more sense to have a special version for the German players, so they could mod the game and the rest of the world would have a normal version?

BTW. In Lithuania the Nazi and also the Soviet symbols are banned. What about censorship with the soviets?
This censorship thing is getting out of hand for video games.
Still the game is looking good, I think it could be a good game for new players. Can't wait for D-Day.

 

[LordOfWar16]

It has nothing to do with censorship, but rather with gameplay mechanics. If the Soviet Union decided to attack Poland with germany while they are guranteed by the UK, they will be at war with the western Allies. Gurantees ingame arent one-way gurantees as the british guarantee of poland was.

The members of the NSDAP and the swastika are only censored in the german version, where videogames arent allowed to include them, yet. The german politicians still live in the 1980's when it comes to laws. Laws that were meant for the rebuilding of germany after the war are also still active.

 

[Rugsejis]

Well the event could override the guarantee just this one time in the game. Since this was historical. Even in the gameplay perspective it would be more interesting when playing the Soviets to attack Poland, then just to sit and wait until you get your lands for free.

 

[Daddl]

Thats not really propaganda though. Thats just what happened.

The soviets attacked two weeks after the Germans. They faced nothing more than 20.000 border guards and had only marginal losses. It was not really a war on this side, just a march to the border they agreed upon with the germans.

Germany getting all of Poland and then giving it to the Soviets in an event is not really correct either, but its more so than putting them into a sperate war with Poland (which as said is not possible as that would put them at war with the allies as well)

 

[rjohansen]

About the swastika. I think it is illegal in more countries than Germany, not sure though. However, the fake flag used now I will replace with the one from HOI3 instead, if not too hard. I feel it is better than the fake one in HOI4, even though the swastika one would be the correct one, it's just safer.

I also think Soviets should attack Poland, but it might be complex as to who France/Britain shall declare war on then.

 

[Tus3]

Or maybe it could be simulated with events: the Soviets have a dicision to cross the Polish border then when they do it, the British have a "the Soviets crossed the Polish border event" and could either ignore it (then the Polish are forced to give the Soviets the provinces they took before the Germans) or threaten the Soviet Union with war if they don't give Poland their territory back.
Or it could be possible that they changed how factions/gaurantees work allowing Poland to be in the allies and at war with the Soviet-Union without other faction members being at war with the Comintern.

 

[VladPrus]

Yes, this is something, what really need to be impleented. It is sad that the game about World War II can't represent beginig of the war properly.

 

[Number 7]

Or maybe it could be simulated with events: the Soviets have a dicision to cross the Polish border then when they do it, the British have a "the Soviets crossed the Polish border event" and could either ignore it (then the Polish are forced to give the Soviets the provinces they took before the Germans) or threaten the Soviet Union with war if they don't give Poland their territory back.
Or it could be possible that they changed how factions/gaurantees work allowing Poland to be in the allies and at war with the Soviet-Union without other faction members being at war with the Comintern.

thats way more a HOI3 way to handle things though, with events and railroading. in hoi4 because its become a much more open sandbox its much harder to simulate unique conditions like that

 

[henzington]

About the swastika. I think it is illegal in more countries than Germany, not sure though. However, the fake flag used now I will replace with the one from HOI3 instead, if not too hard. I feel it is better than the fake one in HOI4, even though the swastika one would be the correct one, it's just safer.

I also think Soviets should attack Poland, but it might be complex as to who France/Britain shall declare war on then.

It is easy enough for players to make mods to have the correct Germany flag. I understand that there are many nations which have laws against using the flag as the USA had a state take down the Confederate Battle Flag just a few years ago and the American Civil War was over 153 years ago.

 

[JerkyJerry]

It is easy enough for players to make mods to have the correct Germany flag. I understand that there are many nations which have laws against using the flag as the USA had a state take down the Confederate Battle Flag just a few years ago and the American Civil War was over 153 years ago.

The United States Federal Government did not force/make/have a state take down the confederate battle flag. That statement could NOT be further from the truth. This is so wrong henzington, so wrong.

 

[henzington]

Was more on the nature of continued dispute over the use of a flag rather then a statement about federal power.

 

[potski]

Some historians (mainly revisionists/conspiracy theorists) suggest that the agreement with Germany involved a simultaneous attack on Poland, but Stalin claimed his forces weren't ready, and held off for a few weeks. In order to avoid war with the Allies, and let the blame for the invasion of Poland fall on Germany.

Regardless, I can't see any sources which claim there was a war between Poland and the Soviet Union. The Soviets did not declare war, they simply crossed the border claiming to be there to protect Eastern Poland from falling into Nazi hands, and to prevent German forces from reaching the Poland-Soviet border, and thereby threatening the Soviet Union. No-one new of the Secret Protocols in the M-R Pact where the division of Poland had been pre-arranged.

Up until the M-R Pact was signed on 24 August 1939, Stalin had been carrying out talks for a pact with the UK and France for the protection of Poland, talks which included discussions with the Polish government for military access for Soviet troops in the event of war. Those talks were open, unlike the Soviet-German talks. So this caused utter confusion in Poland, in an already chaotic war situation, when Soviet troops did cross the border on 17 September 1939. Polish forces didn't know whether to greet them as potential allies or resist them as invaders. As mentioned above, there was no large-scale combat, and very few casualties on either side.

 

[JerkyJerry]

Was more on the nature of continued dispute over the use of a flag rather then a statement about federal power.

LOL
The explanation and the first post don't add up.
Nice try to cover it up however!

 

[henzington]

If I really wanted to cover up I would have just edited the post too. Seriously buddy I just meant that that flags are still an issue for many people even after many years.

 

[VladPrus]

Some historians (mainly revisionists/conspiracy theorists) suggest that the agreement with Germany involved a simultaneous attack on Poland, but Stalin claimed his forces weren't ready, and held off for a few weeks. In order to avoid war with the Allies, and let the blame for the invasion of Poland fall on Germany.

Regardless, I can't see any sources which claim there was a war between Poland and the Soviet Union. The Soviets did not declare war, they simply crossed the border claiming to be there to protect Eastern Poland from falling into Nazi hands, and to prevent German forces from reaching the Poland-Soviet border, and thereby threatening the Soviet Union. No-one new of the Secret Protocols in the M-R Pact where the division of Poland had been pre-arranged.

Up until the M-R Pact was signed on 24 August 1939, Stalin had been carrying out talks for a pact with the UK and France for the protection of Poland, talks which included discussions with the Polish government for military access for Soviet troops in the event of war. Those talks were open, unlike the Soviet-German talks. So this caused utter confusion in Poland, in an already chaotic war situation, when Soviet troops did cross the border on 17 September 1939. Polish forces didn't know whether to greet them as potential allies or resist them as invaders. As mentioned above, there was no large-scale combat, and very few casualties on either side.

Yes, it wasn't typical war, but it doesn't change the facts: it was aggression. It realy was war, but officialy wasn't. USSR's govermnent claimed the Polish State no longer exist and there is need to secure their "rightful" lands. There wern't any great battles, because polish defence was unorganized enough to defend properly. But it was millitary opperation.

 

[henzington]

Yes, it wasn't typical war, but it doesn't change the facts: it was aggression. It realy was war, but officialy wasn't. USSR's govermnent claimed the Polish State no longer exist and there is need to secure their "rightful" lands. There wern't any great battles, because polish defence was unorganized enough to defend properly. But it was millitary opperation.

But from a game standpoint, is it really worth it to develop an unique mechanic for this one event which won't happen again or just happen it with an event since the Russian losses were minimal at best.

 

[VladPrus]

But from a game standpoint, is it really worth it to develop an unique mechanic for this one event which won't happen again or just happen it with an event since the Russian losses were minimal at best.

Yes, I know from game's mechanics perspective it is hard to implement and it is simly one situation. My post was respond to "there wasn't really a war between USSR and Poland". And interesting fact: Germany also did not declared a war in 1939 and simply crossed Polish borders.

 

[jalapen0]

I don't have alot to add to the conversation but I do want to say that I feel like it's weird that the territory is just handed over to the soviets in previous HOI games. I hope there is some improvement to how it's dealt with.

 

[Lifthrasil]

I don't have alot to add to the conversation but I do want to say that I feel like it's weird that the territory is just handed over to the soviets in previous HOI games. I hope there is some improvement to how it's dealt with.

At least in parts this is exactly what happened.
AFAIK some territories of poland were taken by German forces and then given to soviet troops to fullfill the deal.

 

[FOARP]

Yes, I know from game's mechanics perspective it is hard to implement and it is simly one situation. My post was respond to "there wasn't really a war between USSR and Poland". And interesting fact: Germany also did not declared a war in 1939 and simply crossed Polish borders.

Yeah, it really isn't right to say "there was no war" as there most definitely was one, albeit a brief one.

The biggest problem the present implementation causes is that it means Poland never gets attacked by the USSR - you can hold out against the Germans without worrying about the Soviets. In reality Stalin was already preparing his attack and nothing the Poles could do would stop the Soviets from attacking.

HOI has used the same system for modelling the Soviet attack on Poland since HOI1. Time for a change.