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Aine

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I do not understand why the USSR does not receive cores on the territory it receives from Poland. I understand why they do not receive cores on the Persian territory they gain, But Poland? That is kind of ridiculous, considering those territory's remained within the USSR until the dissolution of the union in 1989.

Any help is appreciated :)

ETTAR
 

LiamRiordan

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Maybe its because of the strong national idendity of the Polish people, they've been a huge thorn to any 'oppressor' since the formation of the Polish Kingdom. They continued to fight under the German and Soviet rule, and they are fierce fighters. Can't see them obeying the Soviets willingly in a short period of time.
 

Panzergruppe

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Maybe they should raise claims? I don't think they should receive cores, the people who lived there did not want to be incorporated into the union.

If by your logic they should get cores because they're Russian now, Poland should have cores on Stettin, Soviet Union on Königsberg, etc. It's just not feasible.
 

Miihkali

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Actually 'Polish' regions occupied by the USSR were populated mostly by Belorussians and Ukrainians. Those regions hadn't been part of the Congress Poland, for example, though they had been part of Poland before the partitions of Poland that took part in 18th century. When Poland gained independence after the WWI, the Polish-Russian border proposed by the British foreign minister Curzon was roughly the same as the current Soviet-Polish border. The Soviet-Polish war was fought because of that--Polish wanted to have the border more eastwards, and the Soviets didn't accept that (though it has to be noted, that that territory was declared to be a part of Poland when Poland gained independence, not as the result of the war). Anyway, my point here is that the Poles were a clear minority in those regions, the majority of the population were as ethnic Soviets as it is possible to be ethnic Soviet (i.e. Belorussians had own soviet republic as had the Ukrainians). And, these territories were an old claim by the USSR (and Russia), the territorial claims weren't invented by Stalin to expand. Though expansionism was the reason for why these territories were eventually occupied--but that shouldn't make anyone surprised.

On the other hand, I don't have any idea if there was significant partisan activity in the Polish regions occupied by the USSR. If there was, they shouldn't be national provinces for the USSR. (The USSR may gain cores for example after the WWII as the new borders slowly settled down.) If there wasn't much partisan activity, I see no reason why they shouldn't be Soviet cores from the very beginning of the game. At least from reading quickly some stuff from Wikipedia, I got an impression that the Soviet occupation was rather peaceful, at least when it comes to active armed resistance. But on the other hand it would be better to have a more 'scientific' source.
 
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Sakkura

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Eastern Poland had lots of Poles in it - about 5 million IIRC. In the northern part of the area, there was a Polish majority. The south was dominated by Ukrainians.
 

Miihkali

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Yeah, but for the whole region, the Poles didn't form a majority of the people--and I'm not sure, but weren't the Ukrainians the largest ethnic group?
 

UlrichVonBaden

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The formation of Poland after World War I saw a lot of areas that had significant Polish populations outside of Poland return back to their homeland rather than face Soviet brutality. Volhynia and Polesia for example were traditionally Polish territories but after years of foreign occupation it was hard for the Polish to press those claims since populations of Poles, Ukrainians, Tartars, Byelorussians, Russians, Lithuanians, Swedes, Germans, Cossacks, and Turks (to name a few) had been stomping around those areas for centuries and the ethnic makeup of peoples living on the Russian steppes prior to the formation of the Soviet Union fluctuated wildly at times... this is even evident today in places such as Lvov and Brest-Litovsk which still feel a larger cultural pull from the Polish than they do Ukrainians or Byelorussians.
 

Sakkura

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There were about as many Ukrainians as Poles overall.
The area corresponds approximately to 7-8 Polish pre-war regions or voivodships, of which 4 had a Polish majority and 1 a Polish plurality in the 1931 census (which was probably biased towards Polish to some extent).
The USSR returned the area around Bialystok (plus a few other minor adjustments) to Poland after the end of German occupation, and after that - according to Wikipedia - the composition by language group in the rest of the area was Ukrainian 37.1%, Polish 36,5%, Belarusian 15.1%, Yiddish 8.3%, Other 3%.
 

Sarmatian

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Also, Soviet army received a mixed welcome when entering those areas. Poland wasn't really a democracy in those times, oppression toward the orthodox and especially jewish population was present. Ukrainians and Belorussians were definitely more numerous than the Poles.

All in all, in game terms, SU should receive cores on that territory.
 

Sakkura

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Also, Soviet army received a mixed welcome when entering those areas. Poland wasn't really a democracy in those times, oppression toward the orthodox and especially jewish population was present. Ukrainians and Belorussians were definitely more numerous than the Poles.

All in all, in game terms, SU should receive cores on that territory.
Do you have a source for those claims? Also keep in mind that the USSR repressed the jews at least as much as Poland, probably more in fact.
 

chepaeff

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Do you have a source for those claims? Also keep in mind that the USSR repressed the jews at least as much as Poland, probably more in fact.

Red Army was indeed greeted by ukrainians and belorussians. Polonisation policy and polish osadniki didn't bring love to Poland.
Jews repressed in Ussr? lol
 

safferli

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Stick to game discussion, please.
 

Sakkura

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Red Army was indeed greeted by ukrainians and belorussians. Polonisation policy and polish osadniki didn't bring love to Poland.
Jews repressed in Ussr? lol
They were greeted by "spontaneous celebrations" arranged by local communists, yes. I'm sure you're right about Polonisation not making the non-Polish portion of the local population love Poland, but did the Soviet deportations do much better? There were even Ukrainians fighting on the German side against the USSR. As for Soviet repression of jews, that's an established historical fact. It was all the more organized in 1940-41 because of cooperation with the Germans.

I would be okay with the USSR having or getting cores on some of the eastern provinces of Poland, but not all of them. Especially not the area around Bialystok, which they gave up voluntarily at the end of the war.
 

Dutchemperor

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What about that is exactly "lol"?

IMO, those territories should become Soviet cores after the war, not right in 1939.

Another case of: History is written by the victors.
Please remember that under the banner of "socialism" more people were killed in modern history then by the Fascists.

ONTOPIC:
No, only after WW2 they should get cores. My opnion.
11pic15.jpg
 

Deus Eversor

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south, was dominated by ukrainians, and only in cities poles where majority.
in center, majority was of belorussians, although they werent that nationally concious yet.
north, especially present belorussian-lithuanian border with vilnius surroundings especially where completely dominated by poles

should ussr have cores? ussr consists of national republics, so ussr should have same cores as its members would have

it might not be legit, but after ww2 ussr shoud definitevly have cores, for it had moved polish minority, both eastwards - ot siberia, and westwards - to polish peoples republic (but if it is legit, then why wouldn't make a series of decisions in game, that owuld allow massive relocations of populace?)
 
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