Soviet Far Eastern Mod

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Primorsk and Germany
Germany played on the Cossacks' desire for a White Russia in Barbarossa to recruit them as troops... why don't we make them bring Primorsk in as well if they're not already allied with Japan?

That's a bit weird, Cossacks where linked to their territories, I wonder what they'll do in the other side of Siberia.

Khalkhin Gol
Maybe an event for more border clashes with the Soviets at Khalkhin Gol? (if Mongolia becomes communist, that is...)

Pretty good idea, with increasing chances of war declaration each time ?

From henceforth it should be- Genghis Khan- Rise of Mongolia

This include the possibility of actually rebuilding the mongol empire ? Because without this it may be a bit frustrating .

Sinkiang
Create the 1st Eastern Turkestan Republic instead. This will be interesting as there'll be a conflict of interest between Soviet and Guomindang aims in the region.
It should grant military access to Tibet and Mongolia too.

I'll rather see the Baron annexing them or allying with them, we should also enforce the possibilities of close relation between Tibet and Mongolia, after all it's pretty the only long term way for the Tibetans to secure their independence from the Chinese.

Communist Mongolia
After the communist Mongols took power, Sukhbataar and some of his aides pushed for an annexation of Inner Mongolia, but COMINTERN forced them not to because they viewed relations with the Chinese as more important than the fate of less than two million Mongols. At some point, Communist Mongolia should have an event which sparks their wishing to seize Mengchukuo, or at least turn it into a puppet with Ulanhu as Head of State.

They may need the soviet approval for this, or are we making a more autonomous Soviet Mongolia ?

 

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They may need the soviet approval for this, or are we making a more autonomous Soviet Mongolia ?

I thought Communist Mongolia under Sukhbataar could have been a independent Soviet state, not part of COMINTERN. In reality, COMINTERN forced Mongolia to drop their claims on Mengchukuo, as they weren't prepared to risk confrontation with Germany over the fate of less than 2 million Mongolians. I thought maybe it could be invited to join the COMINTERN only if they drop their Pan-Mongol dreams?

Pretty good idea, with increasing chances of war declaration each time ?

Exactly, if Communist Mongolia becomes part of the Soviet sphere, then Soviet and Mongol troops will clash with Manchukuo in Khalkhin Gol. One day, there'll be an ultimatum, and then...

I'll rather see the Baron annexing them or allying with them, we should also enforce the possibilities of close relation between Tibet and Mongolia, after all it's pretty the only long term way for the Tibetans to secure their independence from the Chinese.

Quite so, and I also read that the Bogdo Khaanate of Mongolia in 1911 allowed the Mongols of Qinghai province (HoI2 Xibei San Ma) to vote for whether they wanted to join Mongolia. They did...
I reckon we make Xibei San Ma no puppet of Nationalist China, nor even part of the Chinese alliance so that Mongolia has freer reign over Western China. Same goes for Sinkiang.
To make sure that Nationalist China actually does have some chance of survival, I suggest we give them around 6 IC more (Xibei San Ma's industrial capacity) and some more troops to begin with. That would be fair

Which leaves one question... where do Tannu Tuva and Buryatia fit into all this?

 

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I thought Communist Mongolia under Sukhbataar could have been a independent Soviet state, not part of COMINTERN. In reality, COMINTERN forced Mongolia to drop their claims on Mengchukuo, as they weren't prepared to risk confrontation with Germany over the fate of less than 2 million Mongolians. I thought maybe it could be invited to join the COMINTERN only if they drop their Pan-Mongol dreams?

I'm not sure the Russians would like to unleash the grip over this region after so many years of efforts to keep it in their influence sphere. It's more plausible if mongolia is a part of the Komintern from the start (1936) as tensions exists between Japanesse and Russians I don't think the mongol claims on Mengchukuo would be a problem. Then it will depends on what happens :
A : If the soviets go to war with Japan the problem is solved.
B : If they do not, they may ask the mongols to abandon their claims to avoid further problems.

If B occurs the Mongol could refuse and then be left alone, mother russia will deny all responsibilities on what may happen. While still sending them support to secure their interest without having to get compromised.

I reckon we make Xibei San Ma no puppet of Nationalist China, nor even part of the Chinese alliance so that Mongolia has freer reign over Western China. Same goes for Sinkiang.

Yes, and if the Mas can annex Xinjinang they sould be a rather correct opponent for Mongolia.

To make sure that Nationalist China actually does have some chance of survival, I suggest we give them around 6 IC more (Xibei San Ma's industrial capacity) and some more troops to begin with. That would be fair

I'm not sure I'll be enough, Chinesse army is no match against the Japanesse whatever you can do.There's a lot of improvement to make sure that China could resist Japan as they did historically. Maybe events spamming chinesse militias "partisans" in inner provinces (coast and cities should be safe).
Anything that can make the country a nightmare to conquer as it was IRL.

Which leaves one question... where do Tannu Tuva and Buryatia fit into all this?

Hard question. I'll see them first as a target for Von Ungern's ambition, and allied to the communist mongolia of course. Then I won't see how we could make them have any possibility for extension except if they switch ideology and side with the Japanesse or the Germans later. Maybe they could be a base for some cossacks lead by Semenov who could have returned from Japan.

 

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I disagree. The Khanate will have enough enemies as it is without the Comintern getting involved- if this begins in 1936, the USSR will have nobody to fight before the Winter War with Finland and will immediately be able to focus their attention on Mongolia. Soviet overrunning of Mongolia would just ruin the entire campaign.
Maybe Communist Mongolia can be offered to join the comintern in around 1938 in exchange for their dropping territorial demands on Mengchukuo and Manchukuo in order to not upset Japan.

Also, in this timeline the USSR wouldn't have had any grip until Communist Mongolia is declared... the Khanate would have been declared from Chinese territory in the Warlord Era and would have remained the Khanate. All we're doing is delaying the Communist invasion which actually happened. The USSR are establishing their grip here.

The same situation would be there with Tannu Tuva- formerly Chinese territory, it would have declared independence from China, not from Russia. As such, Tuva could be not Stalinist, but a left-wing radical under Donduk Kuular, a former Buddhist monk whose policies were very liberally socialist and who Stalin had executed.
That means Tuva could technically join either the Khans or the Communist Mongols, and the USSR will never annex it in 1944 either way. Nationalist China should have claims on Tuva anyway, as they still do today.

Buryatia could be allied with Communist Mongolia from the very beginning- in fact Buryats were the driving force of the Communist Mongol intelligentsia. I say we begin in 1936 with:

- Far Eastern Republic (puppet of USSR along Japanese border)
- Tannu Tuva (not allied with anyone, neutral and isolationist)
- Khanate of Mongolia
- Mengchukuo/ Mengjiang (Japanese ally, not puppet)
- Primorsk (Japanese puppet around Vladivostok)
- Buryatia (communist nation independent of USSR but great friends with it)
- Communist Mongolia (Mongol PSR)
Allies with Buryatia as soon as it begins; this mini-soviet alliance could join the comintern later on

Khanate of Mongolia should control:
Ulanbator, Bayan Nur, Arvayheer, Dalin Dzadagad, Saynshand, Bayan Tumen
Claims on Communist Mongolia, Mengchukuo (which they can renounce if they offer to join in an alliance) and most of Xibei San Ma (if they choose to in an event ratifying the 1911 Khanate vote)

Buryatia should control:
Ulan-Ude (capital), Barguzin, Kachug, Ust-Kut

Tuva should control:
Kyzyl, Shushkenoye, Ojrot-Tura (the latter is Khakassia- we could say the Khakass communists decided to join the Tuvans?)
Claims on Muren or Khobdo (there are a large minority of Tuvans in West Mongolia)

Communist Mongolia should control:
Khobdo (capital?), Yusun Bulag, Muren, Bayan Hongor
Claims on all Khanate of Mongolia and Mengchukuo

Mengjiang should control:
Erenhot, Jining, Xilinhot, Kalgan, Datong (and of course Shanxi controls the rest of that area as it would in vanilla 1936 HoI2)
Claims on all of Khanate of Mongolia and Communist Mongolia

Primorsk controls:
Vladivostok (capital), Tetyukhe, Spassk-Dalnij, Iman, Ternei, Khabarovsk

Far Eastern Republic controls:
Komsomolsk na Amure, Birobidzhan, Blagoveschchensk, Bogorodskoye, Nikolayevsk na Amure, Tynda, Mogocha, Chita (capital), Olekminsk, Aldan, Chumikan

 

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I disagree. The Khanate will have enough enemies as it is without the Comintern getting involved- if this begins in 1936, the USSR will have nobody to fight before the Winter War with Finland and will immediately be able to focus their attention on Mongolia. Soviet overrunning of Mongolia would just ruin the entire campaign.
Maybe Communist Mongolia can be offered to join the comintern in around 1938 in exchange for their dropping territorial demands on Mengchukuo and Manchukuo in order to not upset Japan.

Yes I forgot the link between the Khanate - Commie Mongol war. Tough it'll be nice if the Mongolian communists can grab what they want in a an hypothetical war of japan versus USSR, I mean if the Soviet succeed in overrunning Mandchuria they could give the mongols what they whant. Another idea that comes to my mind is that the mongols communists if they go alone against China or Japan may find an arrangement with Mao that may betray them latter of course.

Buryatia could be allied with Communist Mongolia from the very beginning- in fact Buryats were the driving force of the Communist Mongol intelligentsia. I say we begin in 1936 with:

- Far Eastern Republic (puppet of USSR along Japanese border)
- Tannu Tuva (not allied with anyone, neutral and isolationist)
- Khanate of Mongolia
- Mengchukuo/ Mengjiang (Japanese ally, not puppet)
- Primorsk (Japanese puppet around Vladivostok)
- Buryatia (communist nation independent of USSR but great friends with it)
- Communist Mongolia (Mongol PSR)
Allies with Buryatia as soon as it begins; this mini-soviet alliance could join the comintern later on

That's fine, better if we stay there for a first version. I'll start to implement all of this to see how it looks like.

 

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Another idea that comes to my mind is that the mongols communists if they go alone against China or Japan may find an arrangement with Mao that may betray them latter of course.

Yeah. But we'll have to check up the Mongol heads of state who weren't that pro-Soviet and were executed in the Choybalsan purges, such as Aganbudyin Amaar (sp?)- perhaps Mongolia could be very useful against Japan if it allied with Communist China?

I've also considered improving Manchukuo. As well as loads more ministers, I have considered the idea of a Manchurian rebellion maybe starting off, in which the Soviets could intervene? Manchukuo seemed to serve for part of its existence as a haven for disillusioned Qing Dynasty officials who started to work with Pu Yi. Manchukuo could then have a fully Manchu- not Chinese or Japanese- cabinet which would maybe wish to restore the Qing Dynasty and therefore Manchu rule of China. I've already found several prominent Manchu intellectuals and monarchs we could use for possible monarchs.

Mengchukuo is also interesting. Prince Teh Wang would almost certainly have shared Baron Sternberg's Pan-Mongolist dreams. I reckon if the Khanate wins the Civil War, Mengchukuo should either become annexed by them or become their puppet.

I'll see them first as a target for Von Ungern's ambition, and allied to the communist mongolia of course. Then I won't see how we could make them have any possibility for extension except if they switch ideology and side with the Japanesse or the Germans later. Maybe they could be a base for some cossacks lead by Semenov who could have returned from Japan.

I can see Tuva perhaps becoming more Japanese- oriented. However, one interesting thing would be their role in China. The Kuomintang to this day still claim that Tuva is part of China, whereas Mao's China recognised their independence. Maybe Tuva could ally with Mao's China to win their freedom against the Nationalists?
Either way, Tuva won't be a Soviet puppet in this, but there'll certainly be an enormous amount of pressure in the game for it to become one.

EDIT: I'll request the correct flags for each of the nations needed now.

 

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Units

I reckon Tannu Tuva should have at least five divisions, just so it isn't a total pushover. Besides, in this reality Tuva would have significantly more manpower since it controls two more provinces and wouldn't be obliged to give its troops to the USSR to defend against Operation Barbarossa.

Here should be the divisions:

Uriankhai Nairamdakh (Kyzyl)
- Xiongnu Kavalariya (cav '18)
- Akdovuurak Kavalariya (cav '18)

Tannu Ola Armija (Shushkenoye)
- Khakass Korpus (mil)
- 1a Arat Ris'publik Armiya (inf '18)
- 2a Arat Ris'publik Armiya (inf '18)

... and I'm off to make some more skins

 

[Tanesis]

Got to say this all sounds pretty cool.

Tanesis,

 

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Is anybody still interested in helping out with this mod... ?

 

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Woops sorry Mehmet, I had implemented everything since a few weeks .



As you can see there's something wrong with the Sanxi clique territories we could give them to CHC or Mengjiang perhaps ?

 

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Nice work!
I'd say we should give Yuling to Mengjiang- the south of Yuling is the Great Wall, and Mengjiang was technically all of the territory North of the great wall in Mongol lands.
Hohhot should be part of Mengjiang and the rest of the Shaanxi clique should be independent- less Shaanxi territory means a speedier Japanese advance into China, and therefore more war between the Chinese factions and Japan. The more war we have in China the easier Mongol intervention should be!

Northern Sakhalin should be controlled by Japan, with claims on it by the Far Eastern Republic and/or USSR. At some point, perhaps depending on a trigger of some kind, Siberia could be released. I was thinking of maybe making independent Yakutia or Kamchatka, but that's quite unrealistic I suppose.
Did I give you the cabinets for Tuva, Buryatia etc? Because I'm still working on East Turkestani ministers and adding more to Xibei San Ma.