Soviet effects of M-R pact

[unmerged(10750)]

According to V.I. Molotov, on a speech given Oct. 31, 1939, the USSR had 734 KIA and 1862 WIA in their occupation of Eastern Poland. They also captured large quantities of Polish equipment.

Since the Soviet invasion of Eastern Poland is treated as a "special case", I think event 2604 (Eastern Poland to USSR) should cost the USSR an MP point or two, and net them some supplies (perhaps 500-1000?)

 

[boromir]

Remember German effects too!

Well, regarding the RM event (most messed up event imho), I'll write again that a severe dissent hit for not proposing the full historical pact for Germany is a must (otherwise there is no motivation to sign the pact on the German side, especially if US is AI controlled).

EDIT: I think czolgosz's proposals are ok, though fixing the above is the top priority imho.

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by czolgosz
According to V.I. Molotov, on a speech given Oct. 31, 1939, the USSR had 734 KIA and 1862 WIA in their occupation of Eastern Poland. They also captured large quantities of Polish equipment.

Since the Soviet invasion of Eastern Poland is treated as a "special case", I think event 2604 (Eastern Poland to USSR) should cost the USSR an MP point or two, and net them some supplies (perhaps 500-1000?)

Sounds good to me, expect to see it in C.O.R.E.

 

[unmerged(16944)]

Steel, how long do you think it will take to finish C.O.R.E.? Personally i don't like playing with unfinished products.

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by Stidi
Steel, how long do you think it will take to finish C.O.R.E.? Personally i don't like playing with unfinished products.

It's gone from nothing to v0.61 in about 8 months, with a vast amount of work done during the summer months. I expect there will be some big changes over the next month, but as we move into December people will drift away. Certainly a v1.0 release will not be until sometime next year, we are depending on Paradox to fix some things in HoI v1.06 when that patch is released and we still have work to do on the tech tree etc.

Having said that, if you download and try C.O.R.E. now I don't think you would be disappointed. It will also give you a better idea of what's already been done and where your input can help us make a better mod.

 

[unmerged(16944)]

Ok, thanks. Just downloaded it and I'll try it out now. Which country would suggest playing for my first game?

 

[unmerged(16488)]

Anyone. Everyone of them has events. That's rather cool. I've yet to be disappointed by any c.o.r.e. game. Of course, Germany might sound cool, but you'll miss the fabulous naval tech tree. Never tried UK with it, but now that I'm thinking about it.....

 

[Vulture]

Re: Remember German effects too!

Originally posted by boromir
Well, regarding the RM event (most messed up event imho), I'll write again that a severe dissent hit for not proposing the full historical pact for Germany is a must (otherwise there is no motivation to sign the pact on the German side, especially if US is AI controlled).

EDIT: I think czolgosz's proposals are ok, though fixing the above is the top priority imho.

Sure

 

[Vulture]

Originally posted by czolgosz
According to V.I. Molotov, on a speech given Oct. 31, 1939, the USSR had 734 KIA and 1862 WIA in their occupation of Eastern Poland. They also captured large quantities of Polish equipment.

Since the Soviet invasion of Eastern Poland is treated as a "special case", I think event 2604 (Eastern Poland to USSR) should cost the USSR an MP point or two, and net them some supplies (perhaps 500-1000?)

Sure as well

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Re: Re: Soviet effects of M-R pact

Originally posted by Vulture
Sure as well

Yay! That was easy!

 

[boromir]

Re: Re: Remember German effects too!

Originally posted by Vulture
Sure

great!

 

[Vulture]

What do you think about +15 dissent for proposing to only partition Poland, or +20 for totally negating the pact?

 

[boromir]

Looks fine to me. Pretty severe

Please keep the US WE changes as well though

 

[Orthank]

I don't get it.

How does secret appedinx to the RM pact corelate with dissent in Reich? Sorry but it's quite strange idea.

I think that RM pact should somehow secure Germany's eastern border for some period of time - for example Soviets will get serious dissent hit (30%) for declaring war on Germany(before 41'). ACTUALLY THIS WAS THE REASON OF THESE NON-AGRESSION PACT! HITLER WANTED TO HAVE CLEAR AND PEACFULL RELATION WITH STALIN BEFORE WAR WITH POLAND.

 

[boromir]

A couple of reasons for this:

1) Right now, from the German point of view - no point in signing the pact if USA is AI (or at all)

2) Attacking Poland without securing a deal with Russia would have been viewed as madness (hence the dissent) - I mean when the pact was announced it was a real shock for the Allies, and a major coup for Stalin and Hitler.

Obviously dissent is imperfect, but something has to be done for gamebalance purposes, otherwise Germany won't sign the pact, because signing it makes Russia much stronger, while Germany doesn't get anything meaningful (they even get an extra 3% dissent for giving eastern Poland to the Soviets). I don't think adding your proposals is possible, nor see a reason why Russia should get a 30% dissent hit for attacking Germany early (I would rather prefer a huge drop in US WE).

 

[Vulture]

Well maybe 15/20 is a bit too severe... 10/15? 5/10?

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Originally posted by boromir
Obviously dissent is imperfect, but something has to be done for gamebalance purposes, otherwise Germany won't sign the pact, because signing it makes Russia much stronger, while Germany doesn't get anything meaningful (they even get an extra 3% dissent for giving eastern Poland to the Soviets). I don't think adding your proposals is possible, nor see a reason why Russia should get a 30% dissent hit for attacking Germany early (I would rather prefer a huge drop in US WE).

Well, the best way to handle it would be to create the possibility of a Soviet DoW if war breaks out without a M-R pact, but I really don't know how to do that. I've played around with a few different event chains, and I have something that sort of works, but since there's no way to tell who DoW'ed whom in event triggers, it's not perfect.

What I'm left with is this possibility -

1) Germany doesn't sign M-R pact.

2) Germany backs down over Danzig.

3) Poland joins Allies.

4) Britain or France DoW Germany sometime in 1940.

5) USSR, thinking that Germany is being aggressive, DoW's Germany.

That's the way I've left it. It's not ideal, but it takes care of the most likely outcomes...

 

[boromir]

Originally posted by Vulture
Well maybe 15/20 is a bit too severe... 10/15? 5/10?

Well I suggested 5/10 in another thread before. I think that is the minimum. That means that with "Poland only" Germany ends up with 8% dissent (when they cede eastern Poland AFAIR), and honoring the pact leaves them with 3%. So its 10-8-3 for Germany. The difference between 10 and 8 is pretty small, so maybe it should be changed to 5/12, making it a 12-8-3 decision. I am ok with higher levels, though maybe these minimal ones present a player with real choices to make, which is what a game should be about

 

[boromir]

Originally posted by czolgosz
Well, the best way to handle it would be to create the possibility of a Soviet DoW if war breaks out without a M-R pact, but I really don't know how to do that. I've played around with a few different event chains, and I have something that sort of works, but since there's no way to tell who DoW'ed whom in event triggers, it's not perfect.

What I'm left with is this possibility -

1) Germany doesn't sign M-R pact.

2) Germany backs down over Danzig.

3) Poland joins Allies.

4) Britain or France DoW Germany sometime in 1940.

5) USSR, thinking that Germany is being aggressive, DoW's Germany.

That's the way I've left it. It's not ideal, but it takes care of the most likely outcomes...

But does that solve the multiplayer problem of never signing the MR pact if there is no human USA, and dowing all around anyway?

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Originally posted by boromir
But does that solve the multiplayer problem of never signing the MR pact if there is no human USA, and dowing all around anyway?

I don't quite understand - is Germany just DoW'ing the Soviets in 1939 in MP, rather than signing the M-R pact?