South Africa

[BBBD316]

So with the outbreak of war there was obviously a debate in the South African parliament regarding whether to join with the UK in declaring war on Germany.

With a Pro-Afrikaner/Anti-British PM in charge I wonder what would have happened had the Sud Afrikans either stayed out of the war or heavens forbid, joined the Axis.

Whilst they couldn't have stopped too much British shipping of itself, it would have forced more shipping through the Suez and would have reduced British manpower on the continent.

Seems like a really good strategy for the Axis will be to coup/civil war SA to bring them into the fold and force a change to the UK war plans.

Would there be a more important coup nation for the Axis powers?

 

[MajorHeartfire]

I am sure there are other nations that could be important, like China, which would provide a friendly backdoor into Central Asia, Russia, and British India. That being said, a Fascist South Africa would be incredible to see in a game. I'd be interested in seeing how much they could change the Africa situation. There really isn't much development in Africa, and all of the action in Africa occurs in North Africa.

You seemed particularly interested in it. What would South Africa actually be able to accomplish in the war besides forcing the British to think twice about shipping around the southern tip of the continent?

 

[kviiri]

They had a population of about ten million for the time period of the game (source). If they somehow managed to escalate their military build-up fast enough, they could potentially become an important regional actor. That's hardly unique to them though, and I'm fairly sure Germany has better ally candidates.

 

[Mabs]

without reading up on it, my gut reaction would be:

their demands would clash with italian ones, and italians were here first, and they would go the same way as nationalistic spain, ie , cheering from the sidelines but contributing nothing

 

[Axe99]

I don't think it'd be a good move for South Africa - they'd be isolated, their population would be divided (while there was some sympathy for the Axis, historically they had greater sympathies with Britain - it may be feasibly possible to swing things around to get them to declare war on Britain, but not without a huge national unity hit - there's a huge difference between staying out of the war (very possible) and joining the Axis (rather implausible, not even taking the strategic situation into account).

On the strategic situation, South Africa didn't have much of an arms industry (they relied on Britain for their ships and I think aircraft and tanks, although I'm fairly sure they managed to manufacture some armoured cars), didn't have oil, and was pretty much totally isolated. If they'd declared for the Axis, they'd have been invaded post-haste and the sympathetic parts of the population put in charge, and then they'd have been Allied again (well, unless the AI in-game is completely incompetent, or their industry is buffed to high heaven).

 

[LordOfWar16]

The south africans themself may not would have been able to block that much shipping, but still would have provided an important strategic position for other axis nations to station their convoy raiders. That would, historically speaking, hurt the soviet union alot considering the amount of lend lease they recieved over the route around africa and through iraq.

 

[paranoidsteve]

if I am playing as UK and south Africa goes axis, I would go commie and then declare war and kill them all.

 

[PunkDanny182]

Now what about bringing a major South American country into the fold for the Axis? Argentina or Brazil? I always enjoyed trying to bring them to power in HOI2 but USA never liked it.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

I'm pretty sure the South Africa would play a very strategic role in the war if the Suez were controlled by the Axis, no doubt about it.

However, on a political note, I'm actually VERY curious, because wouldn't there be two possibilities of fascist Axis-sided South Africa, one that is Afrikaans lead, and one that is Pan African? Imagine, an Afrikaans-lead South Africa would have better diplomatic ties and relations with Germany, however a Pan-African-lead South Africa could incite pro-Axis revolution in all the African colonies (if African cores exist in the game). Just food for thought.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Cool factor aside, it's highly unlikely to have been allowed to happen. Historically, as soon as it looked like the government would be verging towards neutrality (rather than outright pro-Axis, which wasn't the case) it fell and the new government declared war on Germany and fully aligned itself with Britain.

You can play out whatever scenarios you like in a game environment, but it's best not to try to fit all of them into an historically plausible box. Short of an invasion and a change of government, there isn't really a scenario in which South Africa is allowed to join the Axis.

 

[MajorHeartfire]

Well historical plausibility is fun and all, but sometimes you just want to go with the crazy options!

Nationalist South Africa should conquer Africa!