Sorry but I have to release steam about the way of communication

[Soldat444]

Dear Devs,

this is no personal offense! Just my opinion.

In my opinion there are two ways of communication about the release:

First way: No communication till a point wherefrom you can estimate a release (this way is terminated by former communication you already did // I know you have learned your leasson and I appreciate that)

Second way: Absolute open communication. You keep your customers/fans informed about the actual date of the estimated release. I know you try this but for me it is absolutely not statisfying to hear nothing in several month of time.
Sure we get some information like Q1 is not gonna happen or beta didnt make it. Or something like we will soon get a stamp on the actual beta-try (just for persons which can read between the lines).

Now we got rumors that stellaris is released first. Only reaction: "yes we have said hoi4 is coming out first but that was months ago" <---- what should I think about statements like this?

This is to less for me who waited round about two full years for this game. Dont missunderstand me, I think you make a great job in developing this game, especially in the last several months (www looks awesome). I think it is just time to open
the communication just a little bit more. I am the last one who wants a buggy release (Hoi III: oh my god please not) but my patience is exhausted. I cant take it anymore...

Sorry to open up such a thread AGAIN but the steam has to go anywhere to save me from exploding.

Best regards

Post scriptum: Maybe we will all calm down if we get an extra free DLC for waiting so long

 

[mdw1985]

Dear Devs,

this is no personal offense! Just my opinion.

In my opinion there are two ways of communication about the release:

First way: No communication till a point wherefrom you can estimate a release (this way is terminated by former communication you already did // I know you have learned your leasson and I appreciate that)

Second way: Absolute open communication. You keep your customers/fans informed about the actual date of the estimated release. I know you try this but for me it is absolutely not statisfying to hear nothing in several month of time.
Sure we get some information like Q1 is not gonna happen or beta didnt make it. Or something like we will soon get a stamp on the actual beta-try (just for persons which can read between the lines).

Now we got rumors that stellaris is released first. Only reaction: "yes we have said hoi4 is coming out first but that was months ago" <---- what should I think about statements like this?

This is to less for me who waited round about two full years for this game. Dont missunderstand me, I think you make a great job in developing this game, especially in the last several months (www looks awesome). I think it is just time to open
the communication just a little bit more. I am the last one who wants a buggy release (Hoi III: oh my god please not) but my patience is exhausted. I cant take it anymore...

Sorry to open up such a thread AGAIN but the steam has to go anywhere to save me from exploding.

Best regards

Post scriptum: Maybe we will all calm down if we get an extra free DLC for waiting so long

I understand you very well and believe me, i wrote several times the same here in the forum. But somehow i don't care anymore, if it is released in Q2 or Q3.

It is like when a child is said: "in a week you get a huge present!"

Then the child happily awaits next week, just to get said "oh sorry, it is next week".

Then the child waits happily until next week. Now you tell him "not in this year", but still the child thinks, the present will come just in january or february.

At the end of the year you tell the child "the company just hired some testers for your present". Again, the child is happy.

Then you tell the some weeks later "oh, it isn't even ready for the testing phase"...The child doesn't care anymore...

And so do i. I'll buy the game sooner or later after release, but my hype has been overstretched and is gone now. I realized, that there are more imprtant things, than this game. And i realized, that the way communication will never change from the perspective of pdx.

But i understand you very well and hope, that you can play other games, which make a lot of fun to you!!!

Cheers

 

[Zoob]

Stellaris will be out when it's ready to be released.

Hearts of Iron 4 will also be out when it's ready to be released.

Setting a date of say 23rd March, does not mean either game would be completed by then.

As frustrating as it is to have to wait, I want the game to be done when I play it, not rushed out to satisfy a date set optimistically. If Hearts of Iron 4 stays in development then obviously it needs more time in the oven.

Remember that while Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris is in development, it is costing the company money, not making them any, Paradox want these titles out, selling copies, making them dollar dollar. But there's no point releasing to market a product that is not done, that will be received negatively and not deliver on its potential, either to the customer in quality, or to the company in revenue.

 

[kviiri]

I don't feel I'm entitled to whine about Paradox having other projects while HoI 4 is ongoing. It's efficient (30 devs on a single project are not even twice as effective as 10 devs) and besides it's hard to adapt people from other projects to support HoI 4 just so fans can get the game slightly earlier.

It'll be released when it's done. Play CK2 or EU4 or anything in between. Or stockpile food so you don't have to leave the house for weeks when HoI 4 is released. But please spare us the pain of having to see these threads everyday. Waiting is bearable, these threads aren't.

 

[Soldat444]

Stellaris will be out when it's ready to be released.

Hearts of Iron 4 will also be out when it's ready to be released.

Setting a date of say 23rd March, does not mean either game would be completed by then.

As frustrating as it is to have to wait, I want the game to be done when I play it, not rushed out to satisfy a date set optimistically. If Hearts of Iron 4 stays in development then obviously it needs more time in the oven.

Remember that while Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris is in development, it is costing the company money, not making them any, Paradox want these titles out, selling copies, making them dollar dollar. But there's no point releasing to market a product that is not done, that will be received negatively and not deliver on its potential, either to the customer in quality, or to the company in revenue.

Yes I see what you mean but I think like this:

Delay 6 months: Oh ok it´s fine
Delay 12 months: Hm still ok i don´t want a buggy game
Delay 18 months: Slowly it becomes a pain in the ass
Delay 24 months: Cmon paradox what the hell are you doing to me

And no release date in sight. Not even a functionally beta.

 

[Lorymat]

Oh god, I'm getting flashbacks from the East vs West debacle .
Soldat444, I know you're anxious to play the game just like the rest of us, but honestly there's nothing you can do but wait. It will be out when it's ready and besides, compared to other gaming studios out there, especially AAA studios, Paradox is doing an awesome job communicating with us.

 

[PlacidDragon]

First way: No communication till a point wherefrom you can estimate a release (this way is terminated by former communication you already did // I know you have learned your leasson and I appreciate that)

Paradox has (in their own words) learned from this, and will not announce any new projects until they are well underway. If i recall, that was from the interview between Angry Joe and Fredrik Wester (though i might remember wrong on that one)

Second way: Absolute open communication. You keep your customers/fans informed about the actual date of the estimated release. I know you try this but for me it is absolutely not statisfying to hear nothing in several month of time.
Sure we get some information like Q1 is not gonna happen or beta didnt make it. Or something like we will soon get a stamp on the actual beta-try (just for persons which can read between the lines).

When have Paradox ever been anything but absolute open in terms of communication ? That they might not say exactly what you want to hear does not make them less communicative

Now we got rumors that stellaris is released first. Only reaction: "yes we have said hoi4 is coming out first but that was months ago" <---- what should I think about statements like this?

You said it yourself... RUMOR. You dont want open communication, you want Paradox to run around policing every thread and acting like rumor squashers. Im pretty sure that they have much better things to do.

Is it possible that Stellaris gets released first ? Yes, of course it is. Do we know ? No, we dont. And until Paradox tells us, neither of the games have a release date

 

[Gethsemani]

Anyone remember Hearts of Iron 3 and the disaster it was at release? I'd rather not hear anything about release date if it means the game will release in a stable and functional version instead of Paradox setting a fixed release date and releasing a buggy, unplayable mess because they could not go back on their promised release.

 

[Zaku]

Why is it a problem IF Stellaris will be released first? Should they delay the game, just because HOI4 was delayed? No, both games will come when they feel like they are finished. I understand that many players are excited for the game, but somebody opening a topic like this every 2 days won't help.

The communicaion from PDS is excellent imo, developers actively answer to most of our questions. They won't speculate on a release date however, because they are not going to make the same mistake again as they did last time.

As I see we have two choices:
1. Accept the fact that HOI4 will come when it's ready and continue being a member of the community knowing this.
2. Don't get hyped about the game, and ignore it until there is a release.

Complaining and being impatient won't bring the game sooner. Software developement has many potential issues that cannot be forseen, and actually solving those issues takes time. I like the idea that PDS actually tries to fix those issues instead just releasing the game half-ready. Belive me when I say that the Developers also want to finish this game already after working on it for 3-4 years.

 

[henzington]

The reason for the understandable frustration is a release date has been stated and then pushed twice.

 

[Goodis]

Remember that while Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris is in development, it is costing the company money, not making them any, Paradox want these titles out, selling copies, making them dollar dollar. But there's no point releasing to market a product that is not done, that will be received negatively and not deliver on its potential, either to the customer in quality, or to the company in revenue.

Kind of off topic, but how do you think this will affect the price ?

We often see cry-babys complaining paradox games and dlcs are overpriced, and devs often calmy tries to explain to these kids that developing an entire game or dlc does take manpower and workhours which costs the company money.

Now, if they initially was thinking of charging us 40 €(F.eg) for a game developed for one year, is it plausable that they could charge us double the originally planed price ?

In other words, wont paradox now after wasted two years of work, money and resources on this game, make enough profit as they initially thought they would ?

How does a company recover from a set back like this ? I know its all about Love and passion, but money and profit matters especially in times like this.


Edit: And yes I would appreciate if paradox could give us an estimated progression update. At least tell us its coming before next christmas!

 

[PanosB3]

Anyone remember Hearts of Iron 3 and the disaster it was at release? I'd rather not hear anything about release date if it means the game will release in a stable and functional version instead of Paradox setting a fixed release date and releasing a buggy, unplayable mess because they could not go back on their promised release.

That 100 times used argument which myself I have used multiple times is starting to wear off after 2 years though....
don't get me wrong I completely agree with you but after such a long time you'd expect that the least we could hope for is a bug free release.

 

[Zoob]

The price will be dependent on the market and the demand, not on the supply.

The price demand curve is fundamental, but they're unlikely to change the price based on an increase in production time.

All products are priced to maximise revenue, if EU4 and CK2 on release, priced at 40 euros, is the sweet spot then that is where they will release it. If they increase the price they risk reducing sales, if they reduce price they could miss out on the money people would have been willing to pay otherwise.

Price is also a prestige issue, they could release the game at £5, but when a game is very cheap, people treat it like a cheap game and may think it is not as good.

An example would be a pair of Nike Trainers, they might be £80. Buf if nike release a trainer for £10, people will think it is not as high quality, a cheap version because the market expects a pair of Nikes to cost £80. It would also mean that people then expect a pair of NIke trainers to then cost £10, so when they bring out their next trainers at £40 people think they are expensive because the market has adjusted.

It's like steam, steam is great for a lot of reasons, but too often people just say "I'll wait for a sale". The expectation has arrived that within 3 months or 6 months a game will be heavily discounted, this means that for consumers willing to wait, the price for an AAA title becomes £15 with 60% off. They take the discount into account and it makes it harder to sell the game at the full price.

In short, I highly doubt the price will be any different to CK2 or EU4 on release.

Edit: Also don't forget that Paradox are making money now from CK2 sales, EU4 sales, and are all driving yachts (probably not) around Stockholm after the amazing launch of Cities Skylines. They probably have a healthy balance sheet, but a product in a protracted development is never desirable for any organisation. Apple are sitting on billions, but they don't want to wait 2 years until the next product launch. They want new phones in peoples pockets, and money in their account as soon as the product can be ready to launch.

 

[Goodis]

Yes I Agree completely, its much of an prestiege issue since Eu4 and Ck2 still(as long as there are no sales) are still at release price.

I just hope they got the time to put in some extra work on the aesthetics of the game(variety of sprites, portraits music) Because for me its a bit shady when game developers(even if they have the time and resources) leave some gaps and holes on purpose, to later add it as DLCs.

I like to complain, but as the paradox whore I am, I will buy every darn dlc they put up anyways

 

[Soldat444]

Kind of off topic, but how do you think this will affect the price ?

We often see cry-babys complaining paradox games and dlcs are overpriced, and devs often calmy tries to explain to these kids that developing an entire game or dlc does take manpower and workhours which costs the company money.

Now, if they initially was thinking of charging us 40 €(F.eg) for a game developed for one year, is it plausable that they could charge us double the originally planed price ?

In other words, wont paradox now after wasted two years of work, money and resources on this game, make enough profit as they initially thought they would ?

How does a company recover from a set back like this ? I know its all about Love and passion, but money and profit matters especially in times like this.

I don´t think the majority of us are willing to pay more than 40 €. If paradox bring it out for 80 € I will wait for sale on steam. I mean c´mon I´m looking forward
to this game for two years and then I beeing punished for they screwed up? I believe paradox know what they have to do with the price.

It is all a question of offer and demand. If you find enough customers whom pay 80 € you can try that. I won´t.

 

[FOARP]

Yes I see what you mean but I think like this:

Delay 6 months: Oh ok it´s fine
Delay 12 months: Hm still ok i don´t want a buggy game
Delay 18 months: Slowly it becomes a pain in the ass
Delay 24 months: Cmon paradox what the hell are you doing to me

And no release date in sight. Not even a functionally beta.

Well, they could straight up lie to you and tell you it was in beta, or they could just lower their standards back to HOI3 times and release it as a buggy mess, would these make you happier?

It'll be done when its done. There's loads of games you can play instead - if you haven't played Panzer Corps give it a blast and stop moaning here.

The reason for the understandable frustration is a release date has been stated and then pushed twice.

Exactly. No point in announcing further release dates that they know they may not be able to meet.

 

[Goodis]

I don´t think the majority of us are willing to pay more than 40 €. If paradox bring it out for 80 € I will wait for sale on steam. I mean c´mon I´m looking forward
to this game for two years and then I beeing punished for they screwed up? I believe paradox know what they have to do with the price.

It is all a question of offer and demand. If you find enough customers whom pay 80 € you can try that. I won´t.

Yeah thats true. No one would pay 80, but in time many would. Just wait for all the dlcs hehe.

Think Ive paid about 200 euros for Eu4 and probably about the same for ck2.

 

[jcpvdberg]

I guess there is one person that can demand stuff etc. Thats the one actually paying the hard working dev's. All other should just get a life and wait for the game to come out. There not delaying it for fun. Let them do there job, find one of your own ot do till the game is done. When you are not the CEO of Paradox, you have nothing to demand etc.

 

[safe-keeper]

Another thread, another "when will release?!" thread -_- .

PDX has tried giving accurate-ish release dates early. Then they had to push back the game, and they got bitching from the community. So now they've decided to keep the cards close to their chest, since they dont want to disappoint again. They still get bitching and moaning from entitled people, but it seems they'll get that anyway, so who cares.

 

[Goodis]

I guess there is one person that can demand stuff etc. Thats the one actually paying the hard working dev's. All other should just get a life and wait for the game to come out. There not delaying it for fun. Let them do there job, find one of your own ot do till the game is done. When you are not the CEO of Paradox, you have nothing to demand etc.

Demand what? A release date?