Sons of Abraham: One Feature a Week thread!

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MalinS

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Praise Be to the Divine! Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham expansion has released, get it here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...here-to-buy-Crusader-Kings-II-Sons-of-Abraham!

UPDATE: To get you all hyped up for the release, we're going to be posting one Feature a Day up on till release (except for Saturday and Sunday unless I can find a way to schedule it!)!

November 18th (aaaall of the weekend posts)
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Global events in the religious sphere
As a part of making religion more present and visible in Crusader Kings II, the Sons of Abraham expansion includes more focus on epic global issues in the religious sphere. The way Crusades are activated has changed somewhat, there are global effects for a religion if that religion's head should be of too weak moral fiber, and heretic movements have been made both more interesting and potentially more powerful if they manage to grow enough.

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New Religious improvements
The Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham expansion is of course heavily focused on the Abrahamic religions. However, the other religions do get some attention as well. For example, there are now religious heads for all applicable religions and heresies in the game, as well as at least one holy order for each religion (if the right reforms or advances are achieved). Some new traits that have to do with religious tolerance and other things have been implemented for all religions in the game. So apart from the major features, you will see lots of little improvements to religious themes here

November 15th (Double post for Saturday as well!)
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Holy orders
The holy orders will receive a lot of attention in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham, with special focus on the Christian military orders, who receive new events and decisions that more accurately illustrate their influence and allow the players to interact with them. New holy orders have also been added for various religions, among them the Knights of Calatrava, Knights of Santiago and the Persian Immortals.

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Monasteries
The Sons of Abraham expansion is all about bringing religion more into the focus of Crusader Kings II, and one of the things we've felt was underrepresented in the game until now is the role of monasteries. This is why we are bringing in a bunch of new flavor events to illustrate the impact of monastic life on society at large, as well as including the possibility of characters to become monks or nuns.


November 14th
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Kingdom of Israel
A Jewish ruler who succeeds in the extremely hard task of conquering Palestine in the face of opposition from the mostly hostile Christian and Muslim worlds (oh, did I forget to mention the Mongols?) can now reap the ultimate reward: the creation of the Kingdom of Israel in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham! As a bonus, there are other epic events related to this that will make such a conquest even more rewarding. Just don't expect to pull this off easily.

November 13th
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Jewish characters
Being a minority, and usually not represented within the European feudal nobility, members of the Jewish faith have previously had very little presence in the game. This is about to change with Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham! Jewish characters will have their own events and decisions, they will be present in the courts as councilors and there will be various decisions for non-Jewish rulers relating to the presence of Jewish people in their realms. Oh, and there's one more thing for the Jews, watch this space in the coming days...



Finally, it's here, the semi-regular thread where images and text comes together in a passionate dance to hype up your expectations for the release of Crusader Kings II: The Sons of Abraham!

Week 45
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Christian pilgrimages
Muslim rulers have been able to go on Hajj in Crusader Kings II since the Sword of Islam expansion. Now it's time for the Christians to go on pilgrimage in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham! Christianity has several different pilgrimage destinations to choose from, and every pilgrim will experience a unique journey that can potentially help shape them as a person. Where you can go depends on which part of Christianity you belong to, on whether that particular site has yet become a focus for pilgrimage (remember, Thomas Becket was murdered in 1270, relatively late in the Crusader Kings II era), and also on your own fancy!

Week 44
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Muslim Schools
Muslim rulers get several new features in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham. For example, players may now choose to adopt one of two major Sunni schools of theology – the Mutazila and Ashari. Each of the two schools will have its own benefits, but there is a catch - choosing sides is certain to annoy followers of the opposing school. Also, Muslim heresies may now have their own Caliphate.

Week 43
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The Game of Pope
Time to start scheming - the Pope game is finally here! Finally you can start building your influence and buy votes for the appointment of cardinals in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham. The reward is to have your own candidate taking a Cardinal's seat, in preparation for the ultimate prize: controlling the Papacy. And just to entice you even more to try to outdo the Borgias, we are adding new options for the Pope – you can now petition him for a crusade, or even ask for a monetary contribution to your various pious(?) projects. (Larger Image Here)

 
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ck2plusdlacc

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How will the "Game of Pope" work with the existing anti-pope system?


EDIT: Upon reflection I don't think this thread was intended for posts by people other than PDS? If so, oops.
 

Carbon

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Can the cardinals have the red attire with hat (galero) please? :)
 

VasantK

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So can we finally play as theocracies and religious orders?
 

Me_

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So can we finally play as theocracies and religious orders?

No, how cool is that? We'll finally see the end of "playable theocracies" threads. :)
 

Carbon

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No, how cool is that? We'll finally see the end of "playable theocracies" threads. :)

Never. There're 6 more planned expansions + numerous DLC. We'll continue to demand it. :)
 

Gball

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How will the "Game of Pope" work with the existing anti-pope system?


EDIT: Upon reflection I don't think this thread was intended for posts by people other than PDS? If so, oops.

Generally speaking, in medieval Europe, the guy with the pointier swords got to wear the fancy hats.
 

ck2plusdlacc

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Generally speaking, in medieval Europe, the guy with the pointier swords got to wear the fancy hats.

Assuming that it works the same way, I can see myself just ignoring the College of Cardinals and just anti-poping my way around.
 

unmerged(751237)

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Assuming that it works the same way, I can see myself just ignoring the College of Cardinals and just anti-poping my way around.
I think there needs to be an MASSIVE negative opinion modifier for having an anti-pope from all Catholic rulers who don't. There should also be an option for them to support your anti-Pope(if they were excommunicated, for example, they might support yours instead if making their own). Your vassals should also be able to choose to support your anti-Pope, another anti-Pope(the AI should actually make them too sometimes) or the Pope.
 

classicist

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We'll continue to demand it.

But why? I've yet to meet a sensible, practically applicable way of reconciling a dynastic game mechanic with a scenario in which the only practical continuity would come from a title. This makes the demands for playable religious orders and theocracies seem a bit fatuous. What would a human player do - what would his title be? - while waiting for the member of his family to be nominated to the title?

Generally speaking, in medieval Europe, the guy with the pointier swords got to wear the fancy hats.

That's also a great way to tell when the Middle Ages / Renaissance turns into the Early Modern Age: then the guys with fancier hats wear pointier swords.
 

Kyoumen

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But why? I've yet to meet a sensible, practically applicable way of reconciling a dynastic game mechanic with a scenario in which the only practical continuity would come from a title. This makes the demands for playable religious orders and theocracies seem a bit fatuous. What would a human player do - what would his title be? - while waiting for the member of his family to be nominated to the title?

That's the exact same argument that was used by people to say there shouldn't be a way to play Republics.

Anyway, you should be able to play the knightly orders and Hashashin because this is the time period in history when they are at their most powerful and important, and also there's a unique idea set if you transfer the Hashashin into EUIV.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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But why? I've yet to meet a sensible, practically applicable way of reconciling a dynastic game mechanic with a scenario in which the only practical continuity would come from a title. This makes the demands for playable religious orders and theocracies seem a bit fatuous. What would a human player do - what would his title be? - while waiting for the member of his family to be nominated to the title?
As I've said in a few places, "adopt" church educated children and disinherited people who are sent to a monastery into one of a number of schools of thought which can function approximately like dynasties. Perhaps even allow them to have a dynasty and a school of thought, and have church succession follow a school of thought for "game over" purposes.

So, you might be "Abbot of Shrewsbury", and a benedictine. Your expected successor would be the prior (possibly an honourary title, possibly one of the advisor positions), and since you're a benedictine house, probably a benedictine. Now, you might also have the title Archbishop of Dhebuarth, but this would be appointed by either king or pope.

The abbey could be something similar to the tradepost, or it could take the place of a barony level church.

The point is you aren't playing a member of a dynasty waiting to be appointed, you're playing a ranking member of your order. Potentially you might only be able to play the head of one of the orders or schools of thought, with your successor in the order being decided by a vote within the order (modified elective or tanistry), or based on seniority.


Think of it this way as well. Before we saw the Republic, what were we expecting the non-head of state families to be whilst waiting to be elected to the big chair? They solved this by adding a mechanic, so potentially a mechanic could be added in parallel for theocracies.
 

unmerged(511554)

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Yes but it didnt require anyone to try and change the definition of family dynasty.

Wanting playable theocracies in CK2 is like buying Fifa14 and wanted an option where you go out with a rifle and shot all the other players.
 

classicist

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As I've said in a few places, "adopt" church educated children and disinherited people who are sent to a monastery into one of a number of schools of thought which can function approximately like dynasties. Perhaps even allow them to have a dynasty and a school of thought, and have church succession follow a school of thought for "game over" purposes.

So, you might be "Abbot of Shrewsbury", and a benedictine. Your expected successor would be the prior (possibly an honourary title, possibly one of the advisor positions), and since you're a benedictine house, probably a benedictine. Now, you might also have the title Archbishop of Dhebuarth, but this would be appointed by either king or pope.

The abbey could be something similar to the tradepost, or it could take the place of a barony level church.

The point is you aren't playing a member of a dynasty waiting to be appointed, you're playing a ranking member of your order. Potentially you might only be able to play the head of one of the orders or schools of thought, with your successor in the order being decided by a vote within the order (modified elective or tanistry), or based on seniority.


Think of it this way as well. Before we saw the Republic, what were we expecting the non-head of state families to be whilst waiting to be elected to the big chair? They solved this by adding a mechanic, so potentially a mechanic could be added in parallel for theocracies.

Well you certainly made some noteworthy suggestions - and I can easily agree with many of them. For a couple of days I've been thinking about the analogy offered by the Republic DLC, and I must of course admit that few could foresee how exactly the patrician system was enacted. Yet it does the trick. So yes, maybe it's not quite as impossible as I've been wont to think.

And yet, and yet... There's a danger that a solution such as you suggest would left unrepresented one of the fundamental strengths of High Medieval monasticism - namely the intimate link between knightly elite and the monasteries. Orphaned children and unwanted younger sons certainly constituted the base stock for monastic brethren before the early 1100s, but after that - with the rise of the Cistercian movement - the rising local aristocracies became the main sponsors, beneficiaries, and supporters for the new monastic establishments (as well as those 'reformed' according to Cistercian principles). To this is also tied the change in the individuals' motivation for joining the monasteries: they were still often younger sons, but they joined with more personal reasons (the so-called "individualism of the 12th century"), and viewed the monastic career as a parallel to the knightly life of fighting and honour, and as one that could bring equal amounts of glory to their families. So I wouldn't say that, in-game, eradicating the dynastic affiliation of monastic characters would be a good solution.

I've been thinking that a 'Monastery' could be a title/court equal to that of a 'Patrician': there would be one or several in each county, but it would not show (or be improved) as a holding but instead via the palace mechanic. The next abbots/abbesses would be appointed from among the "courtiers" (i.e. monastic brothers/sisters) there, or in some cases from among the members of the same monastic order. In any case, I certainly agree that the orders should be represented. But instead of their monastic order replacing their family dynasty, I'd say it would have to be treated as a received trait, like 'Crusader' or 'Hajj'. (The reason for this being what I noted above.) These suggestions, of course, are not hell-bent on making the monasteries playable, instead just focusing on how to enact them in a historically plausible but consistent fashion.
 

jobasha

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Wanting playable theocracies in CK2 is like buying Fifa14 and wanted an option where you go out with a rifle and shot all the other players.

Perhaps more to the point, it would be like playing as the referee.
 

Nyrael

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That's the exact same argument that was used by people to say there shouldn't be a way to play Republics.

No, the argument was by SOME (merchant families idea was present). Thats the difference.
There is also the problem of most Theocracies being unsuitable for long term playthroughs as they serve as support to Pope and other realms rather than an fully autonomous state (the Pope would put quick end to any Bishop that threatens to be too powerful and even Monastic Orders would be split by him if he felt the need to).
 

Jedrek

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There are two beautiful things about this DLC:

1) It's the final CKII DLC - so that I can finally gather all the notes I have and make my minimod that's been planned since last year, not fearing new DLC will introduce new mechanics that'd make me redo all files to restore compatibility.
2) It comes out exactly on the first day of my vacations... :>
 

SBolshevik

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There are two beautiful things about this DLC:

1) It's the final CKII DLC - so that I can finally gather all the notes I have and make my minimod that's been planned since last year, not fearing new DLC will introduce new mechanics that'd make me redo all files to restore compatibility.
2) It comes out exactly on the first day of my vacations... :>
It is NOT by any stretch of the imagination the last CK2 DLC: There are possibly 6 more expansions planned.