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Sonderweg oder Anderweg? -- An interactive AAR in the Hohenzollerns megacampaign

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It is my preogative that we reclaim our cores and nothing more. Inflicting harsh treatise on Britain will just bite us in the rear-end.
I also suggest we annex the City of Rome, which will grant our church more legitimacy and stability, having control over the Vatican.
 
I am in favor of claiming some of North Africa, but not of a harsh treaty against the Pope.

-Stadtholder Meier
 
Our first priority should not be the Brits, but the Great City of Rome, (re)taking this must be our primary goal.
Then, while we're at it, we can dismantle the British colonial empire as much as we can.

-Konrad Paulus, Assembly
 
At the moment, there are two major proposals:

1) Claim all cores, annex Rome
2) Claim all cores, do not annex Rome

Please recall that we would likely have to land troops in North Africa to get the Brits to cough it up. In my experience, the AI is pretty much hard coded never to surrender territories that are not being occupied.
 
I find myself uneasy pushing any claim we may have to the coasts of Tunisia. They have never been a part of the Republic, and they were not a part of the Holy Roman Empire any later than four hundred years ago. ((The cores come from CK2 and very early EU3. The pre-Hohenzollern Kaisers lost Tunisia in the first fifty years of EU3)) Somerset is and was an active part of our collaboration of peoples and cannot be honestly viewed in the same light.

The Roman Question is a far simpler one; the Republic of Germany has already made its break with the Roman Catholic Church and I see no reason whatsoever to impose ourselves further on the Papacy. They are not a threat to the German Catholic Church nor to the Republic it ministers to and should thus be mercifully allowed to return to a peaceful contemplation of Christ's will.

I would have us take the peace treaty Great Britain offered us. We have no reasonable claim to nor need of any further gains and I wish to encourage the idea that our government is willing to end its war as soon as justice is done.
 
I agree with Defarge that we should forget about those old lands in Tunis which are not even populated by Germans but I must disagree about Rome.

We started this war for two reasons: first, to let the world know that you should not play hard with us because we will always play harder; and second, to defend the principles in which this Republic is based on.

We must recover Sommerset to free our people and recover what is ours, but the same reasons lead us to free Rome from priests control.

I say this like a fervent catholic. One of the most important principles of this Republic is the separation between Church & State, and the existence of a medieval state ruled by who should take charge only of matters of soul and not of law is an insult to all what this Republic represents and even to what our faith means, I think, , and it exists just in our borders.

Other reason is that the italian people are part of Germany and all they should be ruled under the same law.

Summarizing, it is my opinion that we should take Sommerset from the UK and Rome (plus any other papal province if they have) from the Papal States and then finish this war immediately.

((Why is everybody thinking that we have cut our relations with the Catholic Church? If I understood correctly to Avindian we are like 95% more or less catholic yet. Our bad relation is with the Papal State, not with the Church. At least my character is very catholic even being liberal...))
 
We should take the British peace and also reclaim Fome.
 
((Derp. :eek:o))
I meant Rome.
 
It is my turn to show my discontent with the warmongers present in our government. While some among you may label me as hypocritical, I feel I must speak my opinion on this matter.

I pushed to take Somerset, as I knew that the people who lived there considered themselves to be German in all but language. I knew that Somerset was rightfully part of our lands, and the same can be applied to northern Tunisia.

Rome, however? The Holy See? No.

Whilst the Pope is not the head of our church officially, he is still an important figure in the lives of many Germans. I myself am a Protestant, but I know that if we were to annex the Pope, we would face a severe backlash from our own people, in both the Lower, Middle, and Upper Classes.

Also, we cannot portray ourselves as a nation who takes land from anyone who stands in our way. If we do so, we will bring the might of Europe and the World down upon ourselves. While we may seem like the strongest in the world, we still could not fight everyone at once.

I plead you, both Stadtholder and Assemblyman alike, vote against the Annexation of Rome.

~Owain von Dwyfor
 
TheChalk said:
It is my turn to show my discontent with the warmongers present in our government. While some among you may label me as hypocritical, I feel I must speak my opinion on this matter.

I pushed to take Somerset, as I knew that the people who lived there considered themselves to be German in all but language. I knew that Somerset was rightfully part of our lands, and the same can be applied to northern Tunisia.

Rome, however? The Holy See? No.

Whilst the Pope is not the head of our church officially, he is still an important figure in the lives of many Germans. I myself am a Protestant, but I know that if we were to annex the Pope, we would face a severe backlash from our own people, in both the Lower, Middle, and Upper Classes.

Also, we cannot portray ourselves as a nation who takes land from anyone who stands in our way. If we do so, we will bring the might of Europe and the World down upon ourselves. While we may seem like the strongest in the world, we still could not fight everyone at once.

I plead you, both Stadtholder and Assemblyman alike, vote against the Annexation of Rome.

~Owain von Dwyfor
Click to expand...

My dear friend, I am afraid to say I cannot agree with you.

You defend the Germanity of Sommerset and give it a justification for taking them back to our Republic and as you know I totally agree with you in this point.

But Tunis is part of Germany only in name. It was centuries ago the last time that a German ruled (or lived) in those land so I think they should not be called Germany again. AS you say in your statement "we cannot portray ourselves as a nation who takes land from anyone who stands in our way. If we do so, we will bring the might of Europe and the World down upon ourselves. While we may seem like the strongest in the world, we still could not fight everyone at once" and I think the worl would claim against us if we justify such an agression in an old claim from pre-Hohenzollerns Kaisers. The times of familiar disputes that engage in battle thousand of men have finished. In the same way, the times where the clergy tell the people what they must do and rule over them as aristocrats also must finish. And the elimination of the Papal States is the way to finish those times once for all.

It is the purpose of this Republic to give freedom to all its inhabitants and the Italians are clearly part of this Republic. We must assure that all of them are inside our borders and protection ((because Venice is no more Italy, of course :glare:)).

You also claim that all Christianity will rise against us... Do you really think so? Do you really think that there would be a crusade against this Republic if we take Rome? Seriously? I am a deep catholic, I go to the church and I really believe in our Holy Mother Church and the superiority of our faith but at the same time I strongly believe that the priest, starting by the Pope himself, should stay in their place, the shrines and sacristies. And I also believe that no one would rise up against us if we punish the Pope for his boldness.

Who do you think that would answer his call? The France with problems to defeat a small Castille? The Poland surrounded by enemies? Or the Venice in the other edge of the world which is becoming our first trade partner?

I will say it one more time. Let´s take Rome, assure our south border and finish this war with a clear message to the world:

WE are a peaceful people, but if you attack us, you will pay the consequences of such action!! (and Papal States attacked us)
 
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While I would be content merely to take that which is rightfully Germany's, that being Somerset, we have been presented with a golden opportunity. Claims on North Africa, which are admittedly obscure and centuries old, present us with a chance to further weaken the British Empire and strengthen our position in the Mediterranean. We must take this opportunity, if merely to ensure the security of Germany as a whole and to weaken a rival.

The situation concerning Rome is similar. While I myself am Catholic and I have deep respect for the Pope, the days of the Holy See ruling as a sovereign are over. Let the Pope continue to serve as the representative to the world's Catholics, to those that still accept him as that representative, but from a German Rome.

As such, I support that we claim all cores on Britain and annex the Papal States.
 
This now gives us four separate peace packages (which is why we ordinarily won't do this. :))

1) Somerset and related provinces only.
2) Somerset and related provinces + Rome.
3) All cores.
4) All cores + Rome.

With four such packages, it is almost impossible for one of them to gain a majority of both houses. Therefore, we will do a two step process.

Step 1: Everybody votes for their preferred package (I will go ahead and record all votes previously made). Program with the most votes becomes "the government package". For this purpose, I am going by TOTAL VOTES; that is, out of a total of 600 instead of dividing votes between Conclave and Assembly.
Step 2: A straight vote, yes or no, on "the government package." (Unless this plan is just to annex Plymouth/Somerset, in which case there will be no second vote.) If we get majority in both houses, new plan passes. Otherwise, not.

Again, we won't do this again. If we want additional war goals in the future, they'll need to be announced at the time of the DOW.

Here is the present total. Contravarius, I didn't know if you wanted to use the dismantle war goal or not, but I don't want a fifth plan anyway, so your vote counts as "All cores plus Rome." :p TheChalk, from context, I assumed you wanted all cores only.

Just Plymouth (+ 3 provinces; we get the whole state): 63.75 votes
All cores only (that's a total of eight provinces): 25.5 votes
Plymouth and Rome (Papal States right now is two provinces): 73.25 votes
All cores and Rome: We'll say 40 votes even. (Curse you, one seventh of a vote!)

If it matters, the war score cost for North Africa is another 15.
 
I vote Plymouth + Latium

Adolf von Arnim-Boitzenburg
Imperialist, Conclave
 
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Avindian said:
Here is the present total. Contravarius, I didn't know if you wanted to use the dismantle war goal or not, but I don't want a fifth plan anyway, so your vote counts as "All cores plus Rome." :p TheChalk, from context, I assumed you wanted all cores only.
Click to expand...

((You assumed correct, just confirming))
 
Hey everyone, just as a convenience to me, could you please put your party and your house in your signatures? Some of you are doing this -- some of you aren't. (So, XXXX XXXX, New Imperialists, Assembly). It makes tabulating votes a bit easier.
 
Avindian said:
Contravarius, I didn't know if you wanted to use the dismantle war goal or not, but I don't want a fifth plan anyway, so your vote counts as "All cores plus Rome."
Click to expand...
((Sure, I left it deliberately ambiguous, pretty much meaning "the harshest terms possible".
Also edited signature, bolded the most important things.))
 
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