Something I'd Like to See Kept

[Battlecry]

There was a not-often-used feature in HOI2, whereby you could modify the difficulty parameters for each alliance. You could give a % bonus to one or more of various fields.
It looked like this:

AXIS;;;;;;;X
INDUSTRY;0;0;0;0;0;;X
RESOURCES;0;0;0;0;0;;X
MANPOWER;0;0;0;0;0;;X
RESEARCH;0;0;0;0;0;;X
ORGANISATION;0;0;0;0;0;;X
COMBAT;0;0;0;0;0;;X
MOVE_SPEED;0;0;0;0;0;;X
DISSENT;0;0;0;0;0;;X
DIPLOMACY;0;0;0;0;0;;X
INTELLIGENCE;0;0;0;0;0;;X
#;;;;;;;X

(from db/Difficulty.csv)

with each ;0; (the default value) representing one of the five difficulty levels. Additionally there are entries for the Allies, the Comintern, and the Neutrals.

This allowed the player to make the game harder as the Soviets, for instance, by making the Axis tougher, without strengthening the AI USA/UK as well (I never really found Barbarossa to be much of a threat, even on Very Hard).

There are fairly obvious multiplayer applications as well, for instance if three players wanted to play US/UK/SU against a really tough AI Axis.

It also will allow truly expert players, when even Very Hard is no longer much of a challenge, to increase the difficulty to whatever extreme they might want.

Consider this a formal request to keep this feature in HOI3, so that we may customize the difficulty and increase replayability.

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I was thinking this thread could be used for similar posts regarding obscure HOI/HOI2 features that community members might like to see in HOI3.

My apologies if there already is a similar thread, I have little time right now to search the whole forum.

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[Alex_brunius]

I agree. Ive had use of this function during lan games to set handicap. Wonderful to let all players play what country they want.

 

[Alexander Seil]

Indeed, a very good idea. However, the problem is that it relies on the concept of "major alliances," which is highly suspect, to say the least. In particular, they forced every war that wasn't ended by event to end in annexation. In reality, all Axis countries (discounting those created during the war) except for Germany and Japan actually switched sides during the war, starting with Italy. Because of the major alliance "fight to the death" rule, this had to be handled with EXTREMELY awkward events (which resulted in a Communist, Comintern-aligned Finland if the war went historically, which is utter nonsense). So if they have to toss this feature in order to get rid of major alliances, I more than welcome that development.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Indeed, a very good idea. However, the problem is that it relies on the concept of "major alliances," which is highly suspect, to say the least. In particular, they forced every war that wasn't ended by event to end in annexation. In reality, all Axis countries (discounting those created during the war) except for Germany and Japan actually switched sides during the war, starting with Italy. Because of the major alliance "fight to the death" rule, this had to be handled with EXTREMELY awkward events (which resulted in a Communist, Comintern-aligned Finland if the war went historically, which is utter nonsense). So if they have to toss this feature in order to get rid of major alliances, I more than welcome that development.

I think the major alliances (left extremists/right extrimsts/democracy) is a good division. However minors of all sides (as well as italy and to some degree france) needs to switch sides if loosing badly. Survival is always more important than ideology.

But with handicap for an "Alliance" you can choose to get for example a very powerful communist faction for one game, no matter what countries choose this route.

 

[Alexander Seil]

In HoI2 terms, Japan reached a negotiated peace with the Allies (yeah, unconditional surrender and all that, but they kept their government intact), so that leaves one more gaping hole in the "major alliance system." I don't really see the need for it. If the AI associates with "its own kind" or, in case of smaller countries, with whomever has the biggest stick, then I don't see why the system cannot be abolished altogether.

However, if you are familiar with the EU3 engine, it seems more than possible to handicap *individual countries* through modifiers (you know, the "Barbarians on our frontier!" type stuff you get in Rome).

 

[Brad1]

I whole heartedly agree. I love making ridiculously powerful Soviet or German AIs, so that I have more challenge taking them down.

 

[Lazy_Boy]

I do hope they keep that but there should be more to the difficulty level than straight handicaps on variables. Difficulty level hopefully will be more AI based than just the player handicap it is now. Like on very hard the AI is essentially acting like its in total war from 1936. Building up industry and its army well. But on easy it makes stupid inefficient decisions. I just wish the difference wasn't to skew the game unrealistically against you for a challenge but from a base of realistic IC and such have a more varying AI.

 

[Battlecry]

However, if you are familiar with the EU3 engine, it seems more than possible to handicap *individual countries* through modifiers (you know, the "Barbarians on our frontier!" type stuff you get in Rome).

Yes, it's always been possible to give bonuses/handicaps to any single country - I just thought it'd be nice to be able to set these without having to a) write up several triggered modifiers b) have to activate the one you want each time, through the text file.

I do hope they keep that but there should be more to the difficulty level than straight handicaps on variables. Difficulty level hopefully will be more AI based than just the player handicap it is now. Like on very hard the AI is essentially acting like its in total war from 1936. Building up industry and its army well. But on easy it makes stupid inefficient decisions. I just wish the difference wasn't to skew the game unrealistically against you for a challenge but from a base of realistic IC and such have a more varying AI.

What I'd like to see is an "advanced" button, right next to the difficulty setting, which brings up a menu in which each alliance is listed and given values like this:

AXIS
INDUSTRY		[00] [<] [>]
RESOURCES		[00] [<] [>]
MANPOWER		[00] [<] [>]
RESEARCH		[00] [<] [>]
ORGANISATION	        [00] [<] [>]
COMBAT			[00] [<] [>]
MOVE_SPEED		[00] [<] [>]
DISSENT			[00] [<] [>]
DIPLOMACY		[00] [<] [>]
INTELLIGENCE	        [00] [<] [>]

So that way you could give any alliance a bonus or handicap from +99 to -99, and those who don't want that could just ignore it.

 

[Alexander Seil]

You could write a series of modifiers that only applied to the allies of a particular nation. Modifiers work exactly like events, but stay active as long as the trigger conditions are met. So, if you want to handicap Axis countries, write a handicap modifier that triggers for Germany and any country allied with it.

 

[Jingles]

I agree with the OP's suggestions based on the potential for modding the game for various reasons.

 

[Battlecry]

You could write a series of modifiers that only applied to the allies of a particular nation. Modifiers work exactly like events, but stay active as long as the trigger conditions are met. So, if you want to handicap Axis countries, write a handicap modifier that triggers for Germany and any country allied with it.

It would be even easier, I'm sure. Most likely there will be some sort of flag that defines a country as part of a particular alliance, so you could just write one like this:

Example_Modifier = {
	trigger = {
		has_country_flag = Axis_Nation
	}
	
	IC = 1.0 ###+100%
	
	icon = 3
}

I don't mean to say it wouldn't be easy to mod this in, I'm saying I'd like to see it built in, so that anyone could use it right from the getgo.

EDIT: LOL Okay so maybe I didn't say that at first, but it's what I'm saying now so there

 

[jdrou]

Probably wouldn't even need a flag; just a trigger for being allied to Germany/USSR/UK would probably be enough. For more complexity it could instead consider the Axis to be any alliance lead by the most powerful ideologically far-right country and something similar for Comintern ('Allies' might need some additional complexity to allow UK to lead it if USA is not at war with the Axis or Comintern).

 

[Alexander Seil]

The problem is, what if Bolivia has a fascist coup and allies with a right-wing Argentina? It wouldn't do well if the title of "Axis" could switch depending on situation. I suggest simply defining the "Axis," for the purpose of these modifiers, as any country aligned with Germany. I'm against hard-coded alliance definitions, however. Especially given the major mess they created in HoI2 (I refer you back to the Axis minor defection event mess. Especially the perpetually broken Italian surrender event.).

 

[Battlecry]

The problem is, what if Bolivia has a fascist coup and allies with a right-wing Argentina? It wouldn't do well if the title of "Axis" could switch depending on situation. I suggest simply defining the "Axis," for the purpose of these modifiers, as any country aligned with Germany. I'm against hard-coded alliance definitions, however. Especially given the major mess they created in HoI2 (I refer you back to the Axis minor defection event mess. Especially the perpetually broken Italian surrender event.).

This would work, yes. Personally I'm more for pre-defined Axis, Allied & Comintern powers for these modifiers. I don't really care if Nat. Spain joins the Axis and doesn't get the modifier, I just want to see a stronger Germany, or USSR, or UK...it isn't as if Nat. Spain (under AI control) is going to be much of a world power anyway.

 

[Alexander Seil]

My point is that you don't need to give up the benefit of having major alliances described by the OP. All you need in the trigger of a modifier is an OR condition (either the country IS Germany, or Germany is allied to it) and a MTTH of 1 day or something (or 0, never tried seriously modding CK, EU3 or Rome, so can't tell). The moment you load the game, the modifier will kick in for ever country allied with Germany, and Germany itself. To make sure, just make a duplicate event, but for Japan. That should cover all possible Axis configurations.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, since the Axis in HoI2 almost always EXCLUDED Japan, it would be actually easier to handicap/boost them using a modifier in HoI3 than it is in HoI2.

 

[Battlecry]

My point is that you don't need to give up the benefit of having major alliances described by the OP. All you need in the trigger of a modifier is an OR condition (either the country IS Germany, or Germany is allied to it) and a MTTH of 1 day or something (or 0, never tried seriously modding CK, EU3 or Rome, so can't tell). The moment you load the game, the modifier will kick in for ever country allied with Germany, and Germany itself. To make sure, just make a duplicate event, but for Japan. That should cover all possible Axis configurations.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, since the Axis in HoI2 almost always EXCLUDED Japan, it would be actually easier to handicap/boost them using a modifier in HoI3 than it is in HoI2.

Fair enough, I'd still like to see my ingame difficulty menu -
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9122185&postcount=8

 

[unmerged(31881)]

So that way you could give any alliance a bonus or handicap from +99 to -99, and those who don't want that could just ignore it.

Why limit it to just ±99 though?

 

[Battlecry]

Why limit it to just ±99 though?

I just picked a number. Doubling their capability seemed enough for ingame purposes (have fun winning against x2 USSRs, or x2 USA etc), but whatever number is fine with me.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

Okay. Because i'd rather not see it limited. e.g. depending on other tweaks you make, a Germany with a MOVE_SPEED modifier of higher than 99 can actually work out well. (In terms of the hands-off and SOV games i've played, not sure i'd use Germany on those settings against the AI.)

On a slightly related note: is there a command for a COMBAT modifier? Because that would be something i'd not might extending to an AI Germany but maybe not to Italy... i.e. a country specific way to do it?

 

[jdrou]

The problem is, what if Bolivia has a fascist coup and allies with a right-wing Argentina?

Only the most powerful (however you want to define that) right-wing authoritarian country in the world would define the Axis so unless one of those countries becomes more powerful than Germany or Germany gets a left-wing coup it wouldn't matter.

You could write a series of modifiers that only applied to the allies of a particular nation.

This is another good option but many people might prefer having some form of major 'ideological' alliances with their own scripted modifiers.