Somebody help me formulate a strategy for Lan Xang

[User29]

Their ideas are absolutely amazing to me, I tried once but Ayu ganked me with their two vassals and ally, it was painful, but I really want to succeed with Lan Xang and make a formiddable empire with them. They have a great colour and ideas so I don't want to play as any of their neighbors, any suggestions?

 

[Clownie]

Ally Ming?

Annex Champa?

Vassalise Dai Viet?

Scorched earth?

Take Shan region?

Expand into Assam area?

I haven't played Lan Xang, but I've played Ryukyu and that's kind of the same.

 

[User29]

I got to -1 reasons for allying ming with Dip Rep advisor :/ Champa is one of my only potential ally's so I never think to attack them, it would just make me more vulnerable during our war. I never thought about Scortched Earth, will try. expanding north would be great if I weren't always stabbed by the Vietnamese/Thai Alliance that happens every single game. Every time I enter a war with <3 allies I get attacked. and usually Lan Na allies one of my allies and Dai Viet/Ayu.

Shan and Assam are the same direction from Lan Xang.

 

[Less]

A quick look shows that Dai Viet's cost to vassalize in 1444 is exactly 100% (and will quickly go above 100% if their autonomy is allowed to tick down). I'd ally everyone you can in the first month or two (don't waste time raising relations, just ally or marriage->ally) and rush a war vs. them though your starting mission. Since Dai Viet will be allying someone on the other side of you, quickly tell the AI to attach their stacks to yours and mob them before they can link their own forces up.

If you can vassalize Dai Viet you should be in a pretty good position to dominate the region combined with decent allies in Pegu/Hsenwi/Mong Yang/etc (depends in starting relationships). That first war is going to be tricky though. If Dai Viet allies Lan Na you should be in for a pretty easy fight (might vassalize them too). If Dai Viet allies Ayutthaya then you'll definitely need the full power of your allies together in a mega stack, but it should be doable. If you beat Ayutthaya I'd definitely recommend forcing them to cancel their vassals, that should render them pretty impotent.

 

[User29]

Wouldn't the AE from that vassalization be enough for Ayu and pals to coalition against me? But I must admit, that has to be the sneakiest genius plan I've heard yet.

 

[Less]

Pre-emptively use your diplomats while the war is on-going to raise relations with everyone else. Hopefully you won't have too many problems. Allies take vastly reduced AE, your new vassal won't care, and the defensive threat of them combined should deter anyone from attacking. Coalitions only get their CB when they have 3 separate nations in the coalition, and so long as Ming isn't taking part you should be scary enough that they won't dare.

IMO, always be aggressive in vassalizing when you are small in the early game. You can get a much stronger power base very quickly compared to direct annexation. Someone doesn't like it? Vassal them too. Feel free to go 1-2 over the relations limit just forming a strong defensive net. Anyone starting out with near-100% warscore cost has a huge bullseye on their head as far as I'm concerned.

 

[User29]

Not sure if Ming will care about relations if I vassalize something that big on its border...

 

[GChapman]

I got to -1 reasons for allying ming with Dip Rep advisor :/

Proclaim guarantee? Offer military access? Sent gift? Build up your army, maybe even over the force limit? Same for navy. Subsidies? Transfer Trade Power?

 

[User29]

Proclaim guarantee? Offer military access? Sent gift? Build up your army, maybe even over the force limit? Same for navy. Subsidies? Transfer Trade Power?

Transfer Trade Power is them giving me power, I don't think you can offer it, I proclaimed guarantee, but that won't work next patch, they don't want military access(-1000 strategic interests even though we have a border) I'm Lan Xang, landlocked in the beginning, Can't afford over the force limit, can barely afford AT the force limit with slider at min. Subsidies, the only thing I could afford was .02 relation increase a year so nope. and 25g is worth 2 relation so gifts don't work, I tried giving one.

 

[TenshiN]

1) Ally whatever Shan state that wants to at start
2) Conquer Champa, leave 1 province with non-increased autonomy for teh income/forcelimit
3) DoW Khmer, take about 3 provinces of them (Steps 2 and 3 are interchangeable)
4) If you lucked a great general (3-4 shock, 1-2-3 manuever), then finish the cores, build up the army and DoW Ayutthaya. Should be winnable if your general is hood, as the AI is really stupid. If not, waith for the truce with Khmer to end
5)???
6) Profit!
-----------------------
Thats the way i succeeded in taking the entire Indochina in 1520 with them, should work

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

Step 1) Ally Ayutthaya and fabricate claim on Dai Viet/Champa.
Step 2) Attack and vassalize those two countries with the help of your ally. Should be easy enough even if Lan Na or Shan gets involved. Improve relations with the countries around you during the war to lessen the AE.
Step 3) Wait untill an opportunity arises to backstab Ayutthaya and feed your vassals with their land.
Step 4) ???
Step 5) Profit!

I haven't played in that region since 1.7 and that was with Dai Viet, but i don't see why the same strategy shouldn't work with Lan Xang too. They are about equal in power. When you get to around tech 8-9 in mil you should be powerful enough to challenge Ming.

I had all this done around 1500.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Screw allying crappythaya or over-worrying about Ming. Improving with Ming will buy you time and you don't get AE with vassals. Grab the friendlies as allies and use the mission on Dai Viet, in my game Champa went in on that which I inherited and vassaled them too. Then I just took claims off of Khmer, Ayu, and Lan Na, later picking up Pegu/Taungu after Pegu joined to help Khmer in its 2nd war. EVENTUALLY, Ming coalitioned me, roughly after they rivaled me because I was among their only eligible rivals lol. Here we are, pretty rich already and about to declare on Ming:



I have Oirat as an ally and they also rival Ming so easy to bring them in. I have a FL of 31, Ming has 44, but it's paper thin Ming troops and I'm tech 7 over 5. Slaughterhouse inbound, and by the end of that first vassal-creating drill I'll have another missionary and be close to Deus Vult to work down some of the Malacca node, though I'll want to vassal feed that a bit too.

Lan Xang is amusing as it's the rare eastern religion that wants religious over humanist. Buddhism has a bit more power than Confucian or Shinto when it comes to conversion (1% more from monastic education), and Lan Xan gets another 1% on its tradition but more importantly +2 TTF so you really want stuff true faith and you have the means to do it. Having only 2 missionaries sucks but we can jack Roma later and until then we can convert some of the harder stuff while offloading more to vassals that are either heresy-cleansed or full annex-released.