Some thoughts on my new game, after a few yrs off stellaris

[arothuris]

Haven't played stellaris for a few yrs, last time I played, buildings were on tiles and sectors were mandatory if u dun want penalties. So, when I came back and started a new game with all the new mechanics, I thought I should tried ensign first, to re-learn how to play the game.

Put some time in, and after I got used to the new things, I actually found the game alot easier than before. Or I should say, the AI empires are pretty much weaker than before, especially the organic non hive ones. I out teched everyone (30+ in each category) including hive and machines, and I have a much larger fleet than everyone else, all alot sooner than I played with the same difficulty with old mechanics.

After I captured a few planets from an enemy, I somehow knew why... Those planets have all city districts built and no others. And there were only the adm buildings and enforcer buildings on the planets. I dunno... I'm still new but wouldn't that crippled the AI as they dun really get any resources from those planets? Or is there something I dun see? Coz the AI certainly wouldn't build like this in the old version, though they weren't smart neither, but still... Did I actually miss something? Are there any benefits with planets building only city districts?

Hive minds and machines kind of do a bit better in my game. I just fought a machine empire and saw that its building strategy is a bit more reasonable to me. And they do have a larger fleet. Actually, a void dweller mega corp human empire fare quite well as well, probably the only exception amongst the organic empires, at least its fleet size is relatively the largest for the organic non hive mind empires, compare to its realm size. Dun know why, may be it's allied to me? The game still feel strange to me, and strangly easy.

FP are still weak as in the old version. They just got jumped on by everyone at the earliest opportunity. Unless one is spawned in a secluded corner and allowed time to grow, they just got eaten pretty fast. Shouldn't something be done about that? They just got no chance seeing even mid game if they were spawned in the middle, or a bit crowded part of the galaxy.

My thoughts so far on the first game I'm playing after quite some time off stellaris. I still love this game alot, just hope the AI would do a bit better, at least be a bit more challenging, even for a new player(?) Or, really, did I miss something about the all city district strategy?

 

[Dr. B]

Stellaris has gained a number of fancy new mechanics over time. A complex job system, many different resources and intricate planet/building/starbase management to mention some.

This is very cool for a player, but the AI has no clue whatsoever about how to plan 10 years in advance using all these shiny tools.

 

[Ryika]

Stellaris has gained a number of fancy new mechanics over time. A complex job system, many different resources and intricate planet/building/starbase management to mention some.

This is very cool for a player, but the AI has no clue whatsoever about how to plan 10 years in advance using all these shiny tools.

Certainly true, but the new mechanics and bonuses have also seriously diminished the relative value of the AI bonuses.

+100% is a lot if it's one of the few modifiers you get, but now techs give percentage bonuses that scale linearly with the AI bonuses, not multiplicatively as they did before, there are things like plant specializations, edicts, etc. all adding percentages on top.

 

[oreopirate]

Yeah, the AI certainly hasn't kept up with the game's changes. But with any luck, the Custodian Team will change that.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I think the city district thing is a known bug where the AI is using Clerks for amenities instead of building holo-theaters, so it gets stuck in a loop where it's always running out.

 

[arothuris]

Another thing...somehow my governors tend to pick up the substance abuser trait the first time they lvl up. At least half of them have got this trait so far. Wonder if that's normal?

And... Just noticed living metal dun give bonus to ship regen anymore. So it's pretty much no use now? Why was it nerfed like that btw??

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

Another thing...somehow my governors tend to pick up the substance abuser trait the first time they lvl up. At least half of them have got this trait so far. Wonder if that's normal?

And... Just noticed living metal dun give bonus to ship regen anymore. So it's pretty much no use now? Why was it nerfed like that btw??

If memory serves, you can research regenerative hull tissue as a ship component tech, which can be added as an augment to ships. This requires living metal to buildable but then grants the same bonus as before.

 

[MathyM]

Install a mod called Startech. Don't even bother with higher difficulty levels after that.

 

[InvisibleBison]

If memory serves, you can research regenerative hull tissue as a ship component tech, which can be added as an augment to ships. This requires living metal to buildable but then grants the same bonus as before.

This is not correct. Regenerative hull tissue doesn't require living metal, and it doesn't provide the same amount of regeneration as the old edict. The tissue provides 1 point of hull regen and 2 points of armor regen; the edict regenerated 0.5% of both armor and hull. On anything except corvettes, the edict is far better.

 

[gjkrenik]

This is not correct. Regenerative hull tissue doesn't require living metal, and it doesn't provide the same amount of regeneration as the old edict. The tissue provides 1 point of hull regen and 2 points of armor regen; the edict regenerated 0.5% of both armor and hull. On anything except corvettes, the edict is far better.

Yea, the nanite repair module is probably what they were thinking of, which requires, surprisingly, nanites. Only use for living metal these days is a megastructure build speed boosting edict.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

This is not correct. Regenerative hull tissue doesn't require living metal, and it doesn't provide the same amount of regeneration as the old edict. The tissue provides 1 point of hull regen and 2 points of armor regen; the edict regenerated 0.5% of both armor and hull. On anything except corvettes, the edict is far better.

Fair enough, tbf it was ‘from memory’ but thanks for clarifying.

 

[Stardance]

The excessive city districts is a known bug that is expected to be fixed next patch in mid November, when they add a lot of improvements to the AI - mentioned in the latest dev diary on AI development. They will also start building holo-theaters.

If you don't want to do mods, I bumped up to Commodore difficulty from Captain in my current game, and played 'tall' on a large map. Galaxy spawned three fanatic purifiers and they are gradually eating the galaxy. I had one neighbor empire attack me and win - then I built up more fleets and fought a good war to get the systems back. So it is possible to have an interesting game without mods - you just have to find the difficulty level that suits you.

That said, the StarTech mod on ensign will definitely prove challenging. I usually go for a more relaxing game and have been playing without mods lately, but there are some very good mods out there that can add a lot to the game.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

Another thing...somehow my governors tend to pick up the substance abuser trait the first time they lvl up. At least half of them have got this trait so far. Wonder if that's normal?

This is a result of governors having so few traits they can gain on level up - the odds for substance abuser are between 1/8 and 1/11 depending on what their first trait was and whether slavery is legal (and any negative trait is between 4/9 and 4/11). Scientists for comparison have odds around 1/24 for Substance Abuser.

 

[Surimi]

FP are still weak as in the old version. They just got jumped on by everyone at the earliest opportunity. Unless one is spawned in a secluded corner and allowed time to grow, they just got eaten pretty fast. Shouldn't something be done about that? They just got no chance seeing even mid game if they were spawned in the middle, or a bit crowded part of the galaxy.

Well, they can kind of go either way. The AI tends to attack them even if doing so is a bit suicidal, which can easily backfire since genocidals have significantly stronger fleets. The "become the crisis" system introduced in Nemesis has also been a massive buff to them as they're one of the few AI empires which will take the ascension perk sometimes, and if they do they will often take over most of the galaxy unless the player makes it a singular mission to destroy them (and ideally, to destroy them early).

The AI isn't good on ensign difficulty. I'm not terribly convinced it's significantly worse than it was in the old tile days, I suspect it's more that the player was more constrained and rushing tech was less of the automatic "I win" button it is now (although this does seem to be something the devs are aware of). My advice, grand admiral with scaling. Grand admiral without scaling can be a bit harsh in the early game unless you're playing optimally, but the scaling makes it very smooth and the AI is considerably less terrible.

You could try AI mods, but they tend to force the AI to play optimally, in a very meta way that isn't always much fun. Unless you're in that bracket of people who also play optimally, it might sap some of the joy out of the experience.

 

[ZeeHero]

Recent dev diary mentioned the custodian team will be taking a look at updating AI soon.

 

[hart30]

The ensign difficulty did not even exist in the days of the old tile system. If i remember it right the difficulty stated at "normal" with "easy" non-existant.
So the difficulty cannot really be compared.

Startech gets recommended very early in such discussions, but i really cannot recommend it for someone who has to relearn the game after having stopped playing for a while. This mod makes the ai incredibly aggressive.

I suggest just to crank up the ai difficulty. The city district bug should appear way less there and the ai performs better as it is able to properly utilize the ressource buffs it receives (until beginning of lategame). Genocidals also perform way better there. They can even crush whole federations. The ai also keeps up in science way better and if the galaxy is too peaceful to u, u still can increase the agressivity slider at gamestart in order to get more action.
No need for startechs overly hostile minmax, everyone behaving, as if the galaxy had been filled with forcespawned all-genocidals, AI. That one really is better if u want to train for competitive multiplayer. At least thats how i use it.

 

[MathyM]

Startech gets recommended very early in such discussions, but i really cannot recommend it for someone who has to relearn the game after having stopped playing for a while. This mod makes the ai incredibly aggressive.

I agree that it might not be the best way to get into the game again, because it does make the game significantly harder, but since OP is already playing a new match and voicing their opinion about how weak the AI is, I thought it would be nice to recomment Startech for their next playthrough.

I do disagree with AI aggressiveness. You can just install the Friendship Patch to make the AI's diplomatic behavior closer to if not identical to vanilla.

 

[Bakalov]

If you want some challenge, try all advanced start grand admiral with 25x crisis and default pop settings, maybe some reduced tech too.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Put some time in, and after I got used to the new things, I actually found the game alot easier than before. Or I should say, the AI empires are pretty much weaker than before, especially the organic non hive ones. I out teched everyone (30+ in each category) including hive and machines, and I have a much larger fleet than everyone else, all alot sooner than I played with the same difficulty with old mechanics.

Tech rushing is a lot more powerful now because techs can increase empire output by a large amount.

That also closes the productivity gap between the player and the AI's cheats. In The Olde Dayes when the AI had +100% resources from Grand Admiral difficulty it had double what you did (assuming you didn't optimise for pink rocks via traits and slavery and so on), whereas now it gets +100% from difficulty and you both get +100% from tech, so the AI actually only has 50% more than you in the late game even before you use any other optimisations. (And the AI isn't good at techrushing so actually you can catch up the difference quite quickly).

 

[Pancakelord]

Tech rushing is a lot more powerful now because techs can increase empire output by a large amount.

That also closes the productivity gap between the player and the AI's cheats. In The Olde Dayes when the AI had +100% resources from Grand Admiral difficulty it had double what you did (assuming you didn't optimise for pink rocks via traits and slavery and so on), whereas now it gets +100% from difficulty and you both get +100% from tech, so the AI actually only has 50% more than you in the late game even before you use any other optimisations. (And the AI isn't good at techrushing so actually you can catch up the difference quite quickly).

I've wondered for a while if -upkeep, -sprawl, and -construction costs wouldn't be a better alternative to +output for ai difficulty.

Those are harder to come by and might better emulate player efficiency (as the AI still will be racking up techs; quickly with -sprawl modifiers and/or an AI mod).

-build costs should synergise better than +output, with how the AI basically only does stuff when it's got atleast X of a resource. If things are cheaper, it won't dip below threshold as often (and output is boosted by techs - or modded decision making), so it does more stuff.