Some thoughts about Church career in CKII

[Don_giorgio]

Actually the events wouldnt be random fired as far as it concerned the ranks... the event granting the trait "Deacon" would be fired immediately as soon as the player chooses the "enter the clergy" option when the character finishes his ecclesiastical education... The event granting the trait "Priest" would be fired automatically when the character completes 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 years as a "Deacon"... While the trait "Bishop" event would be fired automatically when someone of the 2 previous ranks gets elected/appointed by the Pope/Ruler as a Bishop anywhere...

 

[Ruwaard]

Actually the events wouldnt be random fired as far as it concerned the ranks... the event granting the trait "Deacon" would be fired immediately as soon as the player chooses the "enter the clergy" option when the character finishes his ecclesiastical education... The event granting the trait "Priest" would be fired automatically when the character completes 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 years as a "Deacon"... While the trait "Bishop" event would be fired automatically when someone of the 2 previous ranks gets elected/appointed by the Pope/Ruler as a Bishop anywhere...

About the elected/appointed bit, local/regional dynasties will want their candidate as the new bishop; I hope that they will be able to lobby (bribe if necessary ).

 

[RedRooster81]

About the elected/appointed bit, local/regional dynasties will want their candidate as the new bishop; I hope that they will be able to lobby (bribe if necessary ).

That was a great feature in EU Rome. Leave an office empty long enough, and you'll get an event called "I'm sure he's qualified..." with a candidate who offers you a hefty bribe. There are a lot of benefits to having a bishop in the family after all.

 

[Don_giorgio]

That was a great feature in EU Rome. Leave an office empty long enough, and you'll get an event called "I'm sure he's qualified..." with a candidate who offers you a hefty bribe. There are a lot of benefits to having a bishop in the family after all.

Even better if he is a Cardinal too... lots of piety and prestige for the dynasty and even more if u manage to put a family member to St. Peter's Throne (or the Patriarchal Throne if u play as an Orthodox)

 

[unmerged(75409)]

To work up the religious education career track, I would propose from lowest to highest

1. Student
2. Novice
3. Acolyte
4. Deacon
5. Priest
6. Canon
7. Bishop
8. Arch-Bishop
9. Cardinal
10. Pope

Not everyone can of course progress even to level 5 (basic character statistic requirements, e.g., diplomacy 8 to become bishop?). Level 6 and above would be appointed positions. Level 4 and above require promises of celibacy, at least in the West. Level 3 would represent "minor orders" that do not require celibacy, at which point the ecclesiastic can break off the track, following a career in royal service (which of course deacons and above can do as well).

For females,

1. Student
2. Novice
3. Nun
4. Abbess

The ecclesiastical track has some departure points, especially for men. If regular orders like Franciscans, Augustinians, or Dominicans exist in your realm, Students can enter these orders as Novice, progressing from there to Friar, then Abbott.

Entering military orders (e.g., Knights Templar, Knights of Santiago, Teutonic Knights) should be possible either from military or ecclesiastical career track (also include lay members, same for monastic orders). Progress:

1. Novice
2. Sergeant
3. Knight
4. Knight Master (akin to Abbot)
5. Knight Grandmaster (akin to Arch-Bishop)

Some basic ideas. I have not seen much discussion of crusading orders, but I think that you ought to be able to grant baronial fiefs to the Templars, Teutonics, and so on. Historically, the Templars and Hospitallers owned large numbers of fiefs and other varied real property outside of the Levant, which in turn supported their efforts against the Muslims. The Teutonic Knights came to form their own state, more or less within the HRE, while the Knights of Santiago in Iberia owned considerable holdings as well.

But none of those religious orders didn't exist until the 12th or 13th century I think it would be rather anachronistic

 

[RedRooster81]

But none of those religious orders didn't exist until the 12th or 13th century I think it would be rather anachronistic

The military orders did (Knights of St. John, 1023, Santiago officially from 1171). As to the mendicants, remember that the timeframe goes until 1452. It should be possible to create these orders once the historical conditions exist more or less.

 

[unmerged(155641)]

So what if i send off my children for church education; do they become priests, deacons, bishops etc. etc.? I don't really want an heir who is celibate and have some sort of church rank.

 

[RedRooster81]

So what if i send off my children for church education; do they become priests, deacons, bishops etc. etc.? I don't really want an heir who is celibate and have some sort of church rank.

I think that they spend their time in a monastery instead of at court or in military training. They will come out of it knowing Latin, Greek, and probably Hebrew; have connections with the local clergy; some extra piety; and be eligible to be bishops. I don't know what else the devs have in store as far as church education is concerned or even education in general. But as far as fostering your children is concerned, it probably matters whether you send them to another king or noble, to a clergyman, or to a burgher.

 

[Don_giorgio]

I think that they spend their time in a monastery instead of at court or in military training. They will come out of it knowing Latin, Greek, and probably Hebrew; have connections with the local clergy; some extra piety; and be eligible to be bishops. I don't know what else the devs have in store as far as church education is concerned or even education in general. But as far as fostering your children is concerned, it probably matters whether you send them to another king or noble, to a clergyman, or to a burgher.

I hope that the next diary (after this one about the maps) will be about the church...

P.S. you dont have to send your first born to become a celibate clergyman... if u have lets say 5 sons u can send the youngest one... or your younger brother... Its always good to have good relations with the Holy Father... Or the Patriarch if u are an Orthodox...

 

[Don_giorgio]

There could be also events in which u can press the Pope to create one of your family members a Cardinal (or press the Patriarch to consecrate a family member as a Bishop since Orthodoxs dont have Cardinals) in order to raise your standing with the church plus raise your influence over the church by having someone in the family act as a mediator between the realm and the Pope/Patriarch.